Melinda,
Any chance you could send me the data that goes with this, offline, (if
you can, I'll only use the data for investigating this issue, of
course)? I can reproduce something going wrong with the edf computation
for fixed smooths in gamm4, when there are random effects, but I can't
get anywhere near as extreme a discrepancy as you are seeing. Also, I
can't get anything to go wrong in mgcv, (actually you didn't paste the
mgcv code, but rather another gamm4 call? could you send the mgcv code
too?). Also, could you send me gamm4, mgcv and R version numbers, please?
best,
Simon
On 19/07/11 22:16, Melinda Power wrote:
Hello,
I'm running mixed models in GAMM4 with 2 (non-nested) random intercepts and
I want to include a spline term for one of my exposure variables. However,
when I include a spline term, I always get reported degrees of freedom of
less than 1, even when I know that my spline is using more than 1 degree of
freedom. For example, here is the code for my model:
global.gamm4<-gamm4(zcog~s(adjpatx, fx=TRUE, k=5)+int234+cogagec+cogagesq
+
+ + oldfran +newus +alc2 +alc3 +alc4 +alcmiss +smk2 +smk3
+ +mdinc10c +mdinc10sq+ pwhtc +pwhtsq +edu2+ edu3 +husbgs
+husbcol+ husbmiss
+ +currpmh +pastpmh +neverpmh, random= ~(1|id)
+(1|cogtest), data=global)
Using> summary(global.gamm4$mer), I get the following output for my spline
term, indicating that I use the expected 4 degrees of freedom.
Xs(adjpatx)Fx1 0.1018943 0.1073225 0.949
Xs(adjpatx)Fx2 -0.0708114 0.1123845 -0.630
Xs(adjpatx)Fx3 0.7459511 0.6836413 1.091
Xs(adjpatx)Fx4 -0.2062321 0.0923569 -2.233
However, when I use> summary(global.gamm4$gam). I get an estimate of
degrees of freedom that is not 4:
Approximate significance of smooth terms:
edf Ref.df F p-value
s(adjpatx) 0.7588 0.7588 1.346 0.234
This degree of freedom = 0.76 also shows up on my plot.
Ultimately, I would like to use a cubic regression penalized spline,
allowing R to choose the degrees of freedom for me using GCV. However, when
I use the correct code for this or variants of it using mgcv, I also get
degrees of freedom less than 1. For example, in the following code provides
a degree of freedom of less than 1 as well:
global.gamm4<-gamm4(zcog~s(adjpatx, fx=FALSE)+int234+cogagec+cogagesq +
+ + oldfran +newus +alc2 +alc3 +alc4 +alcmiss +smk2 +smk3
+ +mdinc10c +mdinc10sq+ pwhtc +pwhtsq +edu2+ edu3 +husbgs
+husbcol+ husbmiss
+ +currpmh +pastpmh +neverpmh, random= ~(1|id)
+(1|cogtest), data=global)
Output indicating that this spline should probably look linear:
summary(global.gamm4$mer)
Random effects:
Groups Name Variance Std.Dev.
id (Intercept) 0.1823454 0.427019
cogtest (Intercept) 0.0025498 0.050496
Xr.1 s(adjtibx) 0.0000000 0.000000
Residual 0.7782969 0.882211
Xs(adjtibx)Fx1 -0.0387360 0.0215596 -1.797
Output getting a df for this spline of 0.20.
summary(global.gamm4$gam)
Approximate significance of smooth terms:
edf Ref.df F p-value
s(adjtibx) 0.2009 0.2009 16.07 NA
The plot looks linear, but reports a df =0.20.
So...to summarize my questions:
1. Are the splines produced by s(exp, fx=FALSE) or s(exp, fx=TRUE, k=k)
correct even though the reported degrees of freedom appears to be wrong?
2. Can I believe my plot?
3. How can I get the true df used when I use s(exp, fx=FALSE)?
Thanks for any and all help you can provide!
Melinda
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--
Simon Wood, Mathematical Science, University of Bath BA2 7AY UK
+44 (0)1225 386603 http://people.bath.ac.uk/sw283
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