On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 12:47 AM Simon Urbanek <simon.urba...@r-project.org> wrote:
> Avi, > > please see the announcement: > > > https://developer.r-project.org/Blog/public/2021/03/12/windows/utf-8-toolchain-and-cran-package-checks/index.html > > the documentation is in > > > https://svn.r-project.org/R-dev-web/trunk/WindowsBuilds/winutf8/ucrt3/howto.html > > Cheers, > Simon > > > > > On Aug 24, 2021, at 8:34 AM, Avraham Adler <avraham.ad...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:09 PM <luke-tier...@uiowa.edu> wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, Duncan Murdoch wrote: > > On 23/08/2021 8:15 a.m., jan Vitek via R-devel wrote: > > Hi Jeroen, > > I mostly lurk on this list, but I was struck by your combative tone. > > To pick on two random bits: > > … a 6gb tarball with manually built things on his personal machine… > > > … a black-box system that is so opaque and complex that only one person > knows how it works, and would make it much more difficult for > students, universities, and other organisations to build R packages > and libraries on Windows… > > > > Tomas’ tool chain isn't a blackbox, it has copious documentation (see > > [1]) > > and builds on any machine thanks to the provided docker container. > > This is not to criticise your work which has its unique strengths, but > > to > > state the obvious: these strengths are best discussed without passion > based on factually accurate descriptions. > > > I agree with Jan. I'm not sure a discussion in this forum would be > > fruitful, > > but I really wish Jeroen and Tomas would get together, aiming to merge > > their > > toolchains, keeping the best aspects of both. > > I haven't been involved in the development of either one, but have been > > a > > "victim" of the two chain rivalry, because the rgl package is not easy > > to > > build. I get instructions from each of them on how to do the build, and > those instructions for one toolchain generally break the build on the > > other > > one. While it is probably possible to detect the toolchain and have the > build adapt to whichever one is in use, it would be a lot easier for me > > (and > > I imagine every other maintainer of a package using external libs) if I > > just > > had to follow one set of instructions. > > Duncan Murdoch > > > Here are just a few comments from my perspective (I am an R-core > member, but am not part of the CRAN team and do only very limited work > on Windows). Other R-core members may have different perspectives and > insights. > > One bit of background: dealing with encoding issues on Windows has > been taking an unsustainable amount of R-core resources for some time > now. Tomas Kalibera has been taking the lead on trying to address > these issues in the existing framework, but this means he has not had > the time to make any of the many other valuable and important > contributions he could make. The only viable way forward is to move to > a Windows tool chain that supports UTF-8 as the C library current > encoding via the Windows UCRT framework. > > Tomas Kalibera has, on behalf of all of R core and in > coordination with CRAN, been looking for a way forward for some > time and has reported on the progress in several blog posts at > https://developer.r-project.org/Blog/public/. This has lead to > the development of the MXE-based UCRT tool chain, which is now > well tested and ready for deployment. Checks using the UCRT tool > chain have been part of the CRAN check process for a while. I > believe CRAN plans to switch R-devel checks and builds to the > UCRT tool chain during the upcoming CRAN downtime. I expect there > will be some communication from CRAN on this soon, including on > any issues in supporting binaries for both R-devel and R-patched. > > In putting together something as large as a tool chain there will > always be many choices, each with advantages and disadvantages. Some > things may be advantages in some settings and not others. Taking just > one case in point: Cross compilation. This is likely to be a better > approach for CRAN in the future and is supported by the MXE framework > on which the new tool chain is based. > > The much more recent changes in rtools4 to support UCRT are at this > point not yet as well tested as the new tool chain. Once these changes > to rtools4 mature, and if binary compatibility can be assured, then > having a second tool chain may be useful in some cases. But if there > are incompatibilities then it will be up to rtools4 to keep up with > the tool chain used by CRAN. On the other, contributing to improving > the MXE-based tool chain may be a better investment of time. > > Best, > > luke > > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel > > > -- > Luke Tierney > Ralph E. Wareham Professor of Mathematical Sciences > University of Iowa Phone: 319-335-3386 > Department of Statistics and Fax: 319-335-3017 > Actuarial Science > 241 Schaeffer Hall email: luke-tier...@uiowa.edu > <luke-tier...@uiowa.edu> > Iowa City, IA 52242 WWW: http://www.stat.uiowa.edu > > > Thank you, Dr. Tierney. However, I am concerned about the not-insignificant > number of us who for various reasons can only do our development on > Windows. Rtools has been the official tool chain with which to build > windows for the at least 20 years I have been using R (yes, a babe in the > woods compared to most, but not a complete neophyte). Duncan and Jereoen > have each done yeoman’s jobs in ensuring that R can be built from source on > Windows and that packages can be developed for all OSS on Windows—even > Solaris SPARC. > > I am much less aware of Thomas’s work, and I’ll gladly take the blame for > it, but I haven’t seen an accessible tool chain built by him which would > allow me, the Windows developer, to build R and all packages from source on > a native Windows box. Have I just missed it? If not, is that planned? If > R-core switches the official Windows toolchain, where does that leave us? > > Thank you, > > Avi > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > Thank you, Simon. That was valuable. Skimming that quickly, I get a bit concerned. I’ve been building from source and then using OpenBLAS in my R source for many, many years now, and it looks like its support is tenuous in the experimental chain. Similarly with packages like nloptr, where I build NLOPT 2.6+ and have adjusted Jelmer’s code for it to work in R for Windows. I maintain packages with Fortran/OpenMP and Rcpp(Parallel). I hope that should the decision be made to switch, it will be done when the build process is more streamlined, especially for some fundamental packages. That being said, I must take the opportunity again to thank R-core, Tomas, Jeroen, Duncan among many others who have built an infrastructure that allows amateur programmers to contribute to the statistical infrastructure. Thanks again, Avi -- Sent from Gmail Mobile [[alternative HTML version deleted]] ______________________________________________ R-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
