Hin-Tak Leung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi, > > Since you mentioned tcltk2 and python+wxWidgets, what about Tkinter > (python's built-in binding to tk)? It is somewhere between the two, > and is shipped as standard these days with python 2.x. Also, if Perl/Tk > works, and Tkinter works, there is no reason why one can't do R/Tk, > without the Tcl (or the obvious Tcl-ish stuff) in the middle.
As far as I know, Tkinter does use Tcl as a glue language, just like R. Perl/Tk tried the stunt of bypassing Tcl, which I think mainly has bought them difficulties in keeping up with new Tk versions. Notice that a direct Tk interface needs to map each and every piece of Tk functionality, whereas you otherwise just need to implement tcl() and a handful of object conversion routines. (OK, so it wasn't all _that_ simple, but you get the point...) The Tcl C interface that gets used by the tcltk package is actually one of the strong points of Tcl/Tk (as opposed to Tcl as a scripting language for entire applications, which can be a bit of a pain.) Especially with the Tcl_EvalObjv interface in place, things really work quite smoothly, since the "quoting hell" of the string-based interface is bypassed. > Just an idea. > > Hin-Tak Leung > > Philippe Grosjean wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Following a discussion initiated on r-devel, that mentions SciViews-R > > and other GUIs issues for R, I would like to make comments (and would be > > happy if these comments would initiate interesting initiatives). > > > > A big, big problem with SciViews-R is that a part of it is written in > > Visual Basic 6, a M$$$$ language, not supported any more, buggy, non > > transposable to other platforms, etc, etc. Last year, I started to > > rewrite SciViews-R, using much more native R code, which will ultimately > > give what I call a "R GUI API", currently partly implemented in the > > SciViews bundle available on CRAN. That "R GUI API" is a lot of work: > > thousands of lines of code for the full API, and as I said, only a part > > of it is currently implemented. That API is developed with reusability > > in mind: platform-independent, better basis to rewrite SciViews-R in a > > different language, and freely available for use by other GUIs. However, > > nobody seems to be interested by this API (may be because it is not > > documented enough?). Even simple functions like progress() in the svMisc > > package are ignored, although they could be useful to some people. Well, > > I regret this situation, but I don't care much more than that: after > > all, the main goal is to make it the basis of the future > > platform-independent implementation of SciViews-R. > > > > Now, regarding the rewritting of SciViews-R itself in a > > platform-independent environment (i.e., language + graphical widget), > > this is not undertaken currently for the reason I am not satisfied > > enough with all curerently existing solutions for various reasons. I > > give just a few explanations here: > > > > 1) R + Tcl + Tk. The tcltk R package is widely available and largely > > debugged. However, there are still problems to make a 100% Tcl console > > for R (look at Peter Dalgaard's attempt in the package, not complete, > > not 100% operational, currently). Another problem: the Tk widgets are a > > little bit old-fashion, and I miss a lot of features provided by more > > advanded graphical widgets like wxWidgets, for instance. However, it > > seems to be the best bet, currently. So, I explore various kinds of > > additions that could make Tcl + Tk a better and more modern GUI > > implementation. Look at http://www.sciviews.org/SciViews-R... the > > "tcltk2" package. In that package, I add "Tile", a series of themable > > and more modern widgets, the famous "tkTable", a tooltip widget, a text > > widget with synthax colouring, a tree widget, etc. + some Windows > > specific stuff that help regarding problems like focusing on a Tk > > window, and communicating with other apps. However, I face the problem > > of installing all these additional widgets seemlessly under all > > paltforms supported by R. For the pure Tcl widgets, no problems. But for > > widgets with compiled code, like Tile or tkTable, this is much more > > difficult... And since I mainly work on Windows... > > > > 2) wxWidgets. This is a really great, very capable and > > platform-independent solution. I like very much James Wettenhal attemps > > of using wxPython (wxWidgets + Python) through RSPython and the > > experimental wxPython R package. However, it is still alpha, there are > > problems to finalize it, and his author is not continuing its > > development for reasons that are personal to him. So, I am not sure we > > will have a usable version available soon to integrate wxWidgets with R > > and use it for a R GUI. > > > > 3) JAVA. There is a good R GUI written in JAVA: JGR. Moreover, something > > like the Eclipse platform is a very promizing environment for a > > rich-featured R IDE. JAVA specialists in my University say such a GUI, > > written in JAVA will be relatively slow compared to other solutions. > > However, JGR is a good actual counter-example. > > > > 4) GTK2. Great widgets... but forgets Windows. I installed and used Gimp > > under Windows. This is certainly the best demonstration on what can be > > done with GTK2 under Windows. I must admit I am very disappointed as a > > Windows user: look&feel is very different, and irritating in several > > aspects. > > > > So, a long mail to conclude that, if I still haven't started to > > implement the platform-independent version of SciViews-R, it is because > > I am not convinced that any of the currently available R + rich-featured > > and platform-independent widgets solutions available is the one that > > will make it possible to reimplement SciViews-R in a streamless and > > relatively bug-free manner. To summarize, the currently best candidate > > is R + tcltk + tcltk2. I am convinced that R + Python + wxWidgets is by > > far a much better solution, but it is still in alpha development. > > Eclipse + JGR looks promising, and GTK2 is there too, but not enough > > integrated under Windows for me to start using such a solution, as a > > Windows user. > > > > I don't have much time to dedicate to SciViews-R and to the Sciviews R > > GUI API for the moment, and I will certainly focus on four hot topics: > > (1) developing the actual SciViews-R as a better teaching aid (I use and > > need it for my own courses!), (2) contributing to the development of > > Tinn-R, (3) further integrating R Commander with SciViews-R, and (4) > > integrating Rpad with SciViews-R. However, I will have various contracts > > in 2006-2007 where the development of SciViews-R is a part of the job. > > So, I will have the opportunity to hire one or two developers, and this > > will hopefully speed up SciViews-R development in a directly that will > > satisfy more users. > > > > Otherwise, I am open to any suggestion, and more importantly, to any > > idea of collaboration with other R GUI developers, as it is currently > > the case with John Fox (R Commander integration with SciViews-R), > > Jose-Claudio Faria (Tinn-R developement and Tinn-R compatibility with > > SciViews-R), and Tom Short (Rpad developments and compatibility with > > SciViews-R). I think it is important to insist on this, in a world > > populated with a myriad of slowly developed, half finished, half > > featured R GUIs, made by people that look too individualist in my view > > to be able of working all together and to write a single R GUI that has > > any chance to be full-featured, well-documented, reasonnably bug-free, > > truly platform-independent, in a near future. > > > > Best, > > > > Philippe Grosjean > > > > ..............................................<°}))><........ > > ) ) ) ) ) > > ( ( ( ( ( Prof. Philippe Grosjean > > ) ) ) ) ) > > ( ( ( ( ( Numerical Ecology of Aquatic Systems > > ) ) ) ) ) Mons-Hainaut University, Pentagone (3D08) > > ( ( ( ( ( Academie Universitaire Wallonie-Bruxelles > > ) ) ) ) ) 8, av du Champ de Mars, 7000 Mons, Belgium > > ( ( ( ( ( > > ) ) ) ) ) phone: + 32.65.37.34.97, fax: + 32.65.37.30.54 > > ( ( ( ( ( email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ) ) ) ) ) > > ( ( ( ( ( web: http://www.umh.ac.be/~econum > > ) ) ) ) ) http://www.sciviews.org > > ( ( ( ( ( > > .............................................................. > > > > ______________________________________________ > > R-devel@r-project.org mailing list > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel > > _______________________________________________ > R-SIG-GUI mailing list > R-SIG-GUI@stat.math.ethz.ch > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-gui > -- O__ ---- Peter Dalgaard Øster Farimagsgade 5, Entr.B c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics PO Box 2099, 1014 Cph. K (*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen Denmark Ph: (+45) 35327918 ~~~~~~~~~~ - ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) FAX: (+45) 35327907 ______________________________________________ R-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
