Michael, Would you guys consider standing up a shapado instance? http://shapado.com/(It's basically an FLOSS clone of stackoverflow, and is great for Q&A type stuff.) You could stand it up as ask.puppetlabs.com, and point new users there for questions. One of the big issues of puppet-users, is simple the volume of emails that are blasted into ones inbox. (Ignoring the diverse nature of the various discussions.) In addition, I have a sense that IRC and mailing lists are a bit old-school, and can be intimidating to new users.
Personally, I don't love mailing lists, in that I don't want to have to subscribe to EVERYTHING, to get the answer to a single question. I'd also like to address Scott's critique of FAQs. I think that no matter how good and complete the documentation, there will be frequently asked questions. It's just the nature of the beast. Thanks, Brian On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Michael Stahnke <[email protected]>wrote: > Hey, we've been having some mailing list discussion on and off inside > of Puppet Labs too. Obviously we have a large community that we are > trying to appeal to, and we keep doing our best to create the > experience for the user-base. > > Breaking the users list into two lists has its pros and cons. > > Pros: > * Less code fragments in emails > * Advanced users not bogged down with new user questions > > Cons: > * Fragmentation of the user-base > * Who will monitor/answer questions on a new user list? > * New people may not learn from more experienced people, because the > more experienced users may not subscribe to the new-users list > > What I really think we need, is a way to provide knowledge to new > users in an efficient (and non fragmented) way. In the past we had a > horrible problem with documentation all over the place, wiki issues, > blogs from everybody and their brother, etc. Today, we have narrowed > those problems with the Learning Puppet series. > (http://docs.puppetlabs.com/learning/), and lots of other > documentation improvements on docs.puppetlabs.com. > > The points about FAQ make complete sense. We'd like to address this > with proper documentation and some other online presence that will be > rolled out in the in the next quarter or so. > > As an interrum, could we have a wiki page where we place questions > that get asked frequently and have no (or incomplete) associated > documentation? > > http://projects.puppetlabs.com/projects/puppet/wiki/Frequent_Questions_Without_Answers > > > We also hope that IRC is helpful and remains helpful. I don't often > see RTFM comments coming out in #puppet. When I do, it's quite often > because their exact question was already answered, with citations, and > the user still didn't read it. Also in this thread somebody mentioned > helping those willing to help themselves. That's a fair statement, > but we really want to make this an accepting community to make > everybody better at their workloads with Puppet. > > I hope I've attempted to answer some of the concerns. I am totally > willing to revisit this in 90 days or so if the community thinks we > should be handling this differently. > > This is also by no means designed to close this discussion, so please > weigh in if you have opinions. > > Michael Stahnke > Community Manager > > > > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Mister IT Guru <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Good Evening Guys, > > > > Let me start by saying that I really admire how far puppet has come in > the last year or so, with the launch of the Enterprise version, Puppet > Forge and the other innovations from within Puppet Labs, and in particular > the community participation. I love the mailing list, even though I've been > lurking for over a year. It's this "inner shame" that compels me to raise > this issue. I apologise if this is not the place to mention this, but hey, > you've already got this far, so keep reading! > > > > I get stage fright looking at some of the "code fragments" that people > post to the list and then say "This is how far I've got and I'm trying to > do X" where X is something pretty complex/unique doesn't quite seem like > best practice or something that you'll find on a general use linux box. > While I have no problem or even issue with this, the problem I find is that > when I tell my admin geek friends about puppet, they go to google and > switch off when they see what they view as "buckets of work" to just get > started. > > We have a lot of Puppet users on Mac, BSD, and now Windows too, so > it's not just Linux. > > > > > In a nutshell the perception and feedback I get and I feel this myself, > is that the competency level of those whose regularly participate in this > list, and in other internet forums may just be a bit too good. I feel as if > puppet is lacking a sort of "nursery area". After all, everyone here is > already a 'professional' or so we like to think! > > > > Would it be a good idea to have a puppet beginners list, where people > can post dumb questions, and maybe have some patient people posting links > to blog entries, you tube videos (something which I noticed is lacking for > puppet, again making it hard for me to evangelise about it, to even get > clients to look at it), and get up to speed with you guys. > > > > I would like a Puppet Nursery - Or failing that, can we get a puppet > advance list? :) > > > > I'm just saying - It worked for a different project, that's part of how > ubuntu started to take over the world, it just became accessible to the > casual user. Well, there are a bucket load of causal professional linux > admins, who I fear may dismiss taking up puppet because they just can't get > the time together to learn or keep up with those who puppet 24/7 > > > > It's just an observation, with a request thrown in - If I annoyed you, > upset you, hurt your ego or made you feel bad in any way, I'm sorry. If you > wish to take it up with me personally, no problem, have your people call my > people, and we'll set up the meet - I'm a big guy so bring backup! (just > kidding, love peace and all that!) - I'm hoping to stimulate some > conversation and debate - how can puppet be one of the first thoughts in > the mind of someone who wants to manage from a 2 to 2 thousands machines? - > Reach a critical mass amount casual users? Worked for Facebook, Twitter - > not so much for Nokia but you get the point. > > > > SO! Techie Admin Genius People!! Let's Debate > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Puppet Users" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Puppet Users" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en. > > -- <http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/solution-providers/brandorr/> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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