This is a Linux list, so I won't get into the politics. Corporate H1-B
visas are limited to 85,000, including 20,000 reserved for those with an
advanced degree. While recently around 600,000 visas are requested
annually (both corporate and otherwise), most are not granted. The
visas generally last for 3 years and can usually be extended another 3
years. In my (quite dated) experience, graduates did not have to return
to their home country. Do not take any of this as my opinion on whether
it should or should not be this way.
On 7/1/25 9:13 PM, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote:
I saw a video of part of a roundtable thing where there were HR reps from MS,
HP, and some other major software employers, and the part I saw was about H1B
candidates. This would have been about 10 years ago now.
They said they budgeted $50k to prosecute every H1B visa. That’s JUST THE LEGAL
FEES for the immigraion paperwork over time.
There was also employee on-boarding, relocation, salary, and and other stuff.
For the ones who were married, or got married later, they also included the
visa / immigration costs for their family members as well.
I wish someone would file a lawsuit against them in order to get to a Discovery
phase where they can find out exactly how much they budget for job retrainingf
or existing employees.
Here’s some context: Companies that hire for DoD jobs take up around 70% of all
BS graduates who are US Citizens, because they cannot hire foreigners. DoD
hires account for a majority of MS and PhD grads who are also US Citizens.
These employers do not have any incentive to pay for graduate school for these
folks, so very few of them go on to graduate school.
However, a significant number of STEM students, especially in Engineering and
Computer Science, are foreigners. They can get their BS here and then their MS,
but then they have to go back to their home country for 2 years. Predictably,
this encouraged a lot of companies to set up facilities to hire these people in
their home countries. But once that 2-year window is expired, many of them are
brought to America.
In order to qualify for an H1B visa, the person has to have relatively unique
skills, and it’s very rare for someone without a MS or PhD to qualify for an
H1B.
Because DoD hires account for such a large percentage of US Citizens at all
levels, it’s difficult for US employers to hire them. Which leaves foreigners
as the largest pool of prospective employees — especially if they want to hire
people with graduate degrees.
That’s fine and dandy, but what’s wonky about it is why a company like MS would
spend so much to hire H1B candidates rather than retrain US employees. It’s
really very simple.
The main reason is the length of time it takes to get a green card. The last I
heard, it was taking nearly 10 years for people from India to get their GCs.
Some countries are as low as 4-5 years.
People on an H1B visa are earning a ton of money relative to what they’d get
back home; they live cheaply and send most of their earnings to their families
at home. The employer is paying for all of their immigration fees which is
probably over $100k over time, if not more.
But here’s the thing: because it takes so long to get the GCs, these people are
basically slaves. They keep a very low profile, they never complain, will not
argue with anybody, or do anything that might get them fired. Because if they
leave, all of the funds paid by their employer are LOST and their application
is immediatly dismissed. They have 30 days to find another employer willing to
start over on their H1B from scratch … or they have to leave the country.
Which is why when they have layoffs, the US Citizens are always the ones to get
cut. Unfortunately, it’s NOT illegal, and is a very common practice. If it WAS
illegal, these companies would probably move 100% of their software development
off-shore.
Personally, I think they should be required to EARN THE RIGHT to process H1B
visas, showing they have spent some reasonable amount of money retraining say,
10 US Citizens in order to hire ONE new H1B candidate. Or pay to put ONE US
Citizen through graduate school and earn a Master’s degree in order to hire ONE
foreigner with a Master’s degree.
As it is, there are NO restrictions on how many US Citizens they can layoff
versus how many foreigners they can hire.
The only limitation is that there are only 65,000 H1B visas per year, and that
includes spouses and family members. They become available in October, and are
usually all scarfed-up in a day or two.
This is one of those things that will hopefully be fixed whenever Congress
decides to fix our outdated, unfair, and mostly broken immigration laws.
-David Schwartz
On Jul 1, 2025, at 4:45 PM, Keith Smith via
PLUG-discuss<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
"Between May and June, Microsoft laid off 2,300 employees in Washington alone,
including 817 software engineers ... During the same period, Microsoft submitted 6,327
H-1B visa requests for software engineer roles matching the same job titles and location
as those affected by the layoffs" - As far as I know this is illegal.
About 16 years ago I was on the Tucson Free Unix List and made a post about H1B visas. I
was met with a reply of "what's the matter are you afraid of someone more
skilled". I expect there are folks on this list that fee the same way.
H1B visas are bad for our country especially when there are plenty of skilled
people right here.
I often wonder why Gates never created a school to teach the skills he needs
for his company.
I'm 69 years old and when I take a trip down memory late I feel I would have
been better off staying in the field I was in and enjoy technology as a hobby.
It has been a rough ride. I feel for those being laid off and especially those
being laid off so some really rich folks can take advantage of the system.
Bravo to those who are ditching M$ for Linux. I have tried multiple times and
I think October (end of life for M10) will be the end of M$ for me.
https://www.wnd.com/2025/07/microsoft-dumps-thousands-american-workers-favor-cheaper-foreign/
Peace, Out!!
Keith
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