On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 2:01:33 PM UTC+1 Rodolfo Berrios wrote: I didn't block you, we don't share any servers. I left the PHP-FIG Discord and in all honesty, I don't feel welcomed here except by two people. It seems that FIG doesn't need my help so why bother.
That seems indeed to be the case, I was not aware of this aspect of Discord as I never encountered it before. The level of hostility and regression that I read at phpc.social is just not what I'm looking for in my life, in all these years working in systems (since 2007) I never felt the urge of being part of the PHP community but when I reached certain age I wanted to be more active and perhaps bring something else to the table. I think it is important to say that 'PHP' (aka internals), the PHP Foundation, the PHP-FIG and the PHP 'community' are all different groups, with different levels of formality and little to no connection between them except the people that form these groups. The PHP-FIG has a very narrow albeit ambitious mission, but by no means claims to represent the community at large. We do however listen to feedback and concerns from members of the wider community, which is why you got some difficult questions. In the things I read, I have seen no PHP-FIG representative making concluding statements about you or your work. It is sad to see how caustic people can get just because they don't want you in. Seeking excuses to start copyright infringement, calling morally questionable for picking certain names. I even saw people mentioning "it's for artisans!" as mocking Laravel users. (I am not a lawyer...) In most parts of the world, 'trademark' an 'copyright' are well established concepts. Local laws vary widely and sometimes requires (expensive) registration to be enforceable. There is however a 'letter of the law' and the 'spirit of the law'. According to the letter of the laws applicable to you, you might be in the clear. I would however not be surprised if at some point you will receive a cease-and-desist letter from one of the companies who's logos you got inspired by. As for the spirit of the law, trademark and copyright exist because we believe that people who invested in building a brand or a creating a copyrightable work should be allowed to profit from their investment and prevent other from profiting unfairly. For trademark, there is also the matter of avoiding confusion in the relevant market. So, while xdebug might not be an enforcable trademark, the use of 'xrdebug' does seem to generate confusion in the relevant market (PHP users). The fact that a project is not-for-profit or personal project is not relevant. The similar name might be completely coincidental, but given that xdebug is aproject with a strong and long track record, this confusion could have been anticipated and prevented. That is what I meant with 'morally questionable', which might sound harsher that intended trough two language barriers (English is not my native language either). What I meant is that choosing such a name goes against the norms and social standards that exist in the community. Because the similarity is with a high-profile project, ran by a well respected member of the PHP community, it is logical that some people have a strong reaction on the matter. You as a community have a serious problem when you enable this witch hunt. I really don't understand how you come to see this as a witch hunt. I see someone mentioning they found out that XrDebug exists and that it is not related to XDebug. Derick gets notified and contacts you. People start looking into your projects and see logos that are 'heavily inspired' on existing trademarks. Someone else makes the link between you and your projects application to become a PHP-FIG member. At that point, people obviously have questions. That is not a witch hunt, that is people noticing your work and reacting to it. If those reactions are indeed abusive otherwise personal attacks, I'm the first to denounce them. I personally did not observe any of this, but if you have received those, feel free to contact me or a moderator to address those. I don't want to be part of this. Sorry. Noted, and also sorry it had to go this way. Kind regards, Vincent de Lau -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/015d0648-4446-4e59-9a97-b3d54d4ba3fdn%40googlegroups.com.
