I just can't agree on some of the points. No doubt about me being nuts in some ways.
I think most everyone produces mediocre images, even utter failures more often than not, myself included. I think few people look objectively at their own work though. There's at least three sides to making a good, hopefully great image, if that's what one is hoping to do. 1. The first is seeing the image in the first place and capturing it. 2. The second is looking at the image that's been captured and taking steps to improve it if necessary (crop, levels, whitepoint, contrast, exposure... etc.). 3. The third is looking at the result and determining if, in the end the image is really good/great, or if it's mediocre or worse. Many times, if negative, that decision occurs as part of step two. The better one becomes at judging their own work, the fewer mediocre or poor shots will be displayed. In the case of learning and getting better, certainly non-good/great images will be shown. They should be recognized as such though. As you state, it's all contingent on the purpose of the photo though isn't it? If the image is meant to be a documentary shot of two people shaking hands over the groundbreaking for a new building, displayed in newsprint, then almost any image is satisfactory. To your last point, I agree, but ask, who is striving for adequate? Maybe some are. Adequate means the vacation shot gets included in the family album. If that's what I'm shooting for, fine, but I'm generally trying to achieve something beyond that. Tom C. >From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: Cut or Keep? A Question About Editing >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:50:08 -0400 > >Tom, with all due respect, you are nuts. > >Most folks know when they produce a mediocre image, and eventually learn >how not >to if they don't want to. Note that I phrased that exactly as I meant it. I >have >found that most of my customers over the years wanted mediocre images, and >I >learned to provide them what the were willing to pay for. In fact I have >come to >the conclusion that except where the images are intended to be "ART" >mediocre is >better as it does not get in the way, just as plain language is better for >communicating ideas than artsy prose. All of which is why my website is >full of >mediocre photos (and you thought it was because I did not know they were >so-so. > >If someone does not think their images are good enough then they are not, >for >them, and they will work harder at it. There are few people on this list >who do >not care. Those who do not care are the ones who are incompetent, and they >would >not bother to read a photography list. In my humble opinion those kind of >folks >are incompetent at just about everything they do. > >Yes, folks can learn from those who have more knowledge and experience than >them, however an open forum where giant egos love to prove how much more >they >know than everyone else is not a good place to do it. > >Now how to determine if your photo is adequate: 1-- Does it serve the >purpose >for which it was taken. 2-- Is it technically OK. 3-- Is it reasonably well >composed. If it meets those three criteria it is competently done. > >Note: I did not put in any requirement that it be the best possible image >taken > at the best possible time in the best possible lighting; those are only >requirements if you intend to be one of the greatest photographers in the >world. >Nothing wrong with working towards that goal if you want to. > > > > >Tom C wrote: > > It's the only way we grow, right. ;-) > > > > If I tell you a mediocre image is great, you may just keep on taking > > mediocre images thinking they're great. I may be kind, but I'm doing >you a > > disservice... and vice-versa of course. ;-) > > > > > > Tom C. > > > > > >> From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: Cut or Keep? A Question About Editing > >> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) > >> > >> In the future, I'll be especially eager to read your comments re my > >> stuff. <grin> > >> > >> Jack > >> > >> --- ann sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>> Tom C wrote: > >>> > >>>> If someone is sharing an image out of camaraderie it's one thing. > >>> In that > >>>> case the person is likely not expecting feedback about the image, > >>> but > >>>> possibly just about the subject, as when I displayed the photos of > >>> the > >>>> chihuahua. It seems though that almost every image is viewed as > >>>> exceptional. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> One must also take into consideration the experience of the one > >>> making the > >>>> comments. Perceptions and the ability to view critically grow with > >>> time. > >>>> Images that I once thought were very good, now present glaring > >>> deficiencies > >>>> when I view them. They may have been the best I had done at the > >>> time, but in > >>>> hindsight I see they were not a good as I once thought. > >>>> > >>>> Tom C. > >>>> > >>> I think the opposite happens occasionally too.... one reason I never > >>> literally toss stuff I've done > >>> even if I think it is lousy work :) > >>> > >>> Now and then I find something in my archives taht I think is worth > >>> something and I chose a different > >>> negative to print... I might find myself liking the one a rejected > >>> years > >>> ago better than the one I chose as > >>> what I thought had the most promise. > >>> > >>> In terms of commenting on others here, I generally give a nod to > >>> those > >>> I enjoy but if I feel I can help by > >>> serious critquing I tend to do that off list... > >>> > >>> IF something really sucks I keep my fingers off the keyboard :) > >>> > >>> ann > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> > >>>>> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" <[email protected]> > >>>>> Subject: Re: Cut or Keep? A Question About Editing > >>>>> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:10:48 -0600 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: Cut or Keep? A Question About Editing > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> In a message dated 10/15/2007 9:24:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >>>>>> And stop posting pictures here, because you won't get an accurate > >>>>>> > >>>>> opinion > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> about what is good from this list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> William Robb > >>>>>> > >>>>>> =============== > >>>>>> I beg to differ. Only someone who showed his own photos on list > >>> so > >>>>>> > >>>>> rarely > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> would think this. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Chicken or egg, dear? > >>>>> When I see people who indiscriminately praise everything thats > >>> posted, > >>>>> whether tepid or otherwise, I tend to lose respect for the entire > >>> process. > >>>>> Rather than damning with faint praise, which does no good at all, > >>> perhaps > >>>>> it > >>>>> would be more honest to call spades what they are. > >>>>> Often, this list is little more than a circle jerk when it comes to > >>>>> reviewing pictures. It's a nice, warm and happy place, and I > >>> appreciate > >>>>> that > >>>>> people need that in their lives, but the best way to improve your > >>> pictures > >>>>> is to have it ruthlessly picked apart, and have the failings of the > >>> picture > >>>>> pointed out. Unfortunately, when people do that, they tend to get > >>> spat on. > >>>>> I don't post a lot of photos at the moment because most of my > >>> photography > >>>>> right now is client based for the studio I am working for, and I'm > >>> not > >>>>> bothering with securing permission to show the stuff. My work is > >>> selling, > >>>>> and making money, I don't need praise beyond that. > >>>>> > >>>>> We can agree to disagree on this one, I won't think less of you for > >>> it, and > >>>>> I hope you'll feel the same way. > >>>>> > >>>>> William Robb > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > >>> and > >>>>> follow the directions. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > >>> and follow the directions. > >>> > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > >> > >> -- > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> [email protected] > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >> follow the directions. > > > > > > > >-- >PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >[email protected] >http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
