Can we end this discussion? I'm kinda tired of it. If you want bootstrap please reimplent own clouds CSS and the CSS of all its apps and provide it in a pull request.
Just talking about that the core devs (Jan) not using your favorite lib won't help to improve anything ;) Ed W <[email protected]> wrote: >On 20/03/2013 15:05, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote: >> Klaas, Danimo, I think your points are good in general. Please keep in >> mind this discussion is about Bootstrap specifically though. Bootstrap >> might be the go-to library for website coders who don’t want to invest >> much into caring about design. But it’s just some predefined styles, >> it’s far from »the web design framework«. We would need to customize >> and remove so much that I fail to see the value here. > ><tongue in cheek> >Absolutely, there is no way that people using bootstrap could create >such varied designs as these (linked from the homepage of bootstrap) >http://builtwithbootstrap.com/ > >With regards to customising, I guess there is a small chance that we >could look at how these free themes have been created with only some >changes to the bootstrap input files: >http://bootswatch.com/ > >And possibly some of these paid for themes offer some inspiration on >tweaking things further? >https://wrapbootstrap.com/ > >(Nice lazy loaded images in that last one) > >It is also a good time to suggest we ditch jquery? It's just some >pre-defined javascripts, it's far from a web framework - we could just >copy out the bits we need and paste those into the scripts which need >them as we go along? We customise the scripts so much in practice I fail >to see the value of including them? ></tongue in cheek> > >(Please smile, don't take offence...) > > >> My main point here is that not everything is magically improved by >> using a library like Bootstrap, and it’s not even a good base. Look >> for instance at our installation process. It’s so vastly simpler than >> any other installation process, and it would look and work way more >> complicated if we used Bootstrap. If we want to do proper usable >> design, we need to invest more. > >I honestly believe you are missing the point. If you want proper usable >design you need to invest *massively, massively more* if you go your own >way (*good* cross platform css designs are very hard). The shortcut to >this tremendous investment is to stand on the shoulders of those who >have gone before and re-use some well debugged base libraries. There are >plenty out there, from simple html5 resets, various grid layouts, >yaml.de is quite nice, all the way up to the fully loaded behemoth which >is bootstrap > >The main reason to critique bootstrap is that it does too much for you >and you have a small skilled developer base who can turn this stuff out >without a moments hesitation, and they all pull in the same direction >and build a small core library of re-usable styles... Given that the >current situation is every app has it's own css and the main base theme >has absolute positioned stuff in it, I would say that the current >situation is pretty iffy..? > >However, I believe that the core developers should choose this, not >idiots like. You need to pick something you are comfortable with for the >long term. > >Good luck > >Ed W > > >_______________________________________________ >Owncloud mailing list >[email protected] >https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud _______________________________________________ Owncloud mailing list [email protected] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
