On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 03:37:50PM +0000, Marko, Peter wrote:
> Hello Steve,
> Some thoughts from my side:
> 
> Linux-yocto is a reference kernel for qemu machines.
> They are good for experiments but will not go to a real product.

This is not true. E.g. meta-qcom is using linux-yocto. And, I think,
that's the only viable way. So-called vendor kernels usually lag behind
linux-yocto wrt LTS version (and the non-LTS kernels are just pain).

I think we should be encouraging vendors to switch to linux-yocto, not
discouraging them.

> So are the linux-yocto qemu kernel CVEs interesting at all?
> I bet that users of yocto have their own kernels.
> From this perspective of course upgrade is fine as no one is using it, but is 
> it needed at all?
> Isn't it better to keep the original one so users who don't upgrade have a 
> good comparison base?
> Maybe it would be interesting to have two kernel version - original + newest 
> so that components can be tested on both, but only if both would also be 
> tested on autobuilder.
> 
> We have split kernel and non-kernel CVEs in our reports since the beginning.
> For a different reason (each SOC needed its own vendor kernel at that time), 
> but it made the metrics focused on what we needed.
> Kernel and other components are other worlds and probably no developer will 
> be fixing both.
> I'd suggest doing the same in oe-core - split the kernel CVEs to a separate 
> tables.
> This will not fix the numbers, but maybe help most users to see status of 
> what they are using without overflowing from unused component with 
> astronomical numbers.
> 
> Third topic is regarding NVD CVE metric reporting.
> Currently it's bogus - not showing majority of CVEs and showing some which 
> are already backported but never updated in the DB.
> I remember that Marta was working on annotations from cvelistV5, but somehow 
> that activity died.
> Maybe there should be a restart of this to make the reports 
> reliable/trustworthy?
> I think that kernel maintainers are backporting all relevant CVE fixes to all 
> affected LTS branches.
> That should mean that with every update, we should be getting back close to 0 
> CVEs and just need a reliable data.
> 
> Maybe a final comment...
> When we open this topic for kernel, there are other components where there is 
> lot of CVEs which realistically cannot be backported.
> Those are usually handled via https://git.yoctoproject.org/meta-lts-mixins/, 
> shouldn't it be the same for kernel?
> 
> TLDR: Since I'm not using linux-yocto, I have just suggestions to reporting, 
> no strong opinion on its upgrade.
> 
> Peter
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] <openembedded-
> > [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Sakoman via
> > lists.openembedded.org
> > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2025 15:31
> > To: Patches and discussions about the oe-core layer <openembedded-
> > [email protected]>
> > Subject: [OE-core] Request for discussion: Kernel version for LTS releases
> > 
> > As you may be aware, the support period for Linux kernel LTS releases
> > has changed to two years. This presents a challenge for our Yocto LTS
> > releases, which have 4 year support periods.
> > 
> > In light of this, Richard sent an email to the Yocto architecture list
> > in January of 2024 outlining the project's plans for kernel support in
> > future LTS releases (copied below)
> > 
> > TLDR: Around the midpoint of the Yocto Scarthgap LTS lifecycle we will
> > backport the then current LTS kernel version and make it the default
> > kernel version. The linux-libc-headers version would remain at the
> > released version.
> > 
> > At a recent Yocto Project Technical Team Meeting there was some
> > discussion around the growing kernel CVE counts in the stable
> > branches:
> > 
> > kirkstone: 552
> > scarthgap: 225
> > 
> > For comparison the master branch CVE count for the kernel is 18
> > 
> > The suggestion was made that we do this kernel version update sooner
> > rather than later, and also include the Kirkstone LTS branch in order
> > to deal with its large number of CVEs.  The original plan was to only
> > do this version bump for Scarthgap, so this would be a change to the
> > plan of record.
> > 
> > Please consider the above and respond to this email with any thoughts
> > or concerns you may have about implementing this version bump in both
> > LTS branches in the coming weeks.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > Full text of Richard's email:
> > 
> > The project is aware that the kernel versions that ship in our next LTS
> > in April will likely not have support for the full lifetime of our LTS
> > (four years). We've been asked a few questions about this so we wanted
> > to write down what our plan is.
> > 
> > Our intent is to support the versions we ship with for as long as is
> > practical. If they become end of life around the mid point of the LTS
> > as expected, our plan is to backport a current LTS kernel at that time
> > into the release and make it the default, leaving the older recipes
> > there for anyone who still needs to use them. It would be based on the
> > kernel in one of our future releases, as appropriate.
> > 
> > The linux-libc-headers version would remain at the released version.
> > This is used to control the features in the toolchain/userspace and
> > there is no need to upgrade this to work with a newer kernel version.
> > Upgrading it would potentially change the toolchain and userspace
> > functionality and this is not desirable in the LTS. To be clear, this
> > does mean bleeding edge features in the newer kernel may not be
> > available but that is desirable in the context of the purpose of the
> > LTS.
> > 
> > The only reason the headers version would change would be to address a
> > security issue in the toolchain or kernel/userspace interface.
> > 
> > Since we don't know what the upstream kernel will do, or when exactly,
> > it is hard to make a definitive plan beyond this.
> > 
> > We appreciate this isn't our usual policy of "no upgrades", however if
> > everyone knows this is the plan from the start, we believe that is
> > different and everyone can plan accordingly, hence wanting to make this
> > clear now.
> > 
> > Since the project is planning to execute the full QA process against
> > this new version, it is putting a plan in place to switch from the
> > start and it plans not to test against any other version beyond that
> > point, it makes most sense to directly integrate the changes rather
> > than the mix in layer approach which is there for unplanned changes.
> > 
> > To be clear, we may also update this plan if/as things develop in the
> > other dependent ecosystems such as kernel as we can't know what will
> > happen in these on the timescales involved.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Richard
> > (on behalf of the Yocto Project TSC, LTS and kernel maintainers)

-- 
With best wishes
Dmitry
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