On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 7:02 AM Ralf Gommers via NumPy-Discussion < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 2:06 PM Hugo van Kemenade <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I believe Azure Pipelines and GitHub Actions essentially use the same >> infra, and Azure Pipelines is also dropping macOS Intel x86-64: >> > > I don't think that is correct. They use the same *runner images* and the > macos-13 image is indeed deprecated for Azure as well, but there's a large > difference in the hardware offered. Azure only just started giving preview > access to macOS arm64 runners, and macos-14/15 images still run on x86-64 > hardware by default. > > That said, I'm really not a fan of trying to move to Azure, for multiple > reasons: > 1. It's a lot of work for a temporary extension of the support window only > 2. Azure is pretty awful to work with, and we have never done any release > builds on Azure. Starting now is very unappealing. > 3. Release process wise there are both new opportunities for mistakes, and > also we'd not be able to do synchronized uploads so Chuck would have to > upload the macOS x86-64 wheels manually before starting the trusted > publishing process (to avoid sdist becoming visible to users first). > 4. It indeed would prevent from fully moving to trusted publishing and no > longer doing manual uploads (however, the security aspect is not the most > important to me here, we only delay an improvement, it's not really a > regression). > > The case for doing the extra work isn't all that compelling, since NumPy > is quite easy to build on macOS - it's the easiest platform by some > distance, even easier than Linux because it's the only platform where a > BLAS library is always available (unless a user is still on macOS <=12, > which is a really small fraction of users). So it's very easy to build > compared to SciPy, Matplotlib, etc. - and I very much doubt that those > projects will be building on Azure. > > *** > > What Andrew suggests would be the more reasonable route: if testing with > cibuildwheel for x86-64 on arm64 through Rosetta works, we can decide to > accept that some features are not as well tested as they should be, but at > least most functionality is tested, and for the rest we rely on it not > changing. > > I'm not as convinced as Andrew that this will work, but I also don't know > that it won't. So let's see if we can move to macos-15 on arm64 and get > this to work? If it works well enough, then keep support for one more year > (and if not, then not)? > This makes sense to me. Let’s make a best-effort attempt using whatever approach cibuildwheel promulgates based on rosetta. If it requires a bunch of extra work we can re-assess. Apple’s last Intel-based hardware came out in 2019. That’s not too long ago and it would be a shame to encourage people to create more e-waste if we can reasonably avoid it. > Cheers, > Ralf > > > >> > mac-OS 13 Ventura >> > In accordance with our policy to support the n-1 version of OS images, >> we will initiate the deprecation of macOS 13 Ventura starting 1st September >> 2025, with plans to retire it by 14th November 2025. Customers currently >> utilizing macOS-13 in their pipelines are encouraged to transition to >> macOS-14 or macOS-15 images. >> > >> > Key Dates: >> > • Deprecation Start Date: 1st September 2025 >> > • Full Retiral Date: 14th November 2025 >> >> >> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/devops/upcoming-updates-for-azure-pipelines-agents-images/#mac-os >> >> (Although I see [1] above has delayed the schedule by one month: now >> starting 1st Oct, complete by 4th Dec, so I expect AP will follow this too.) >> >> Hugo >> _______________________________________________ >> NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3//lists/numpy-discussion.python.org >> Member address: [email protected] >> > _______________________________________________ > NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman3//lists/numpy-discussion.python.org > Member address: [email protected] >
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