ctubbsii commented on issue #3100: URL: https://github.com/apache/logging-log4j2/issues/3100#issuecomment-2795277686
As purely a user of logging, and not a developer of it, I think I take for granted that logging will be started through the automatic configuration purely from the environment and classpath, and the fact that I'm sending logs through the framework. The idea of having configuration "started" or "stopped" is meaningless to me. It makes sense to reveal internal details about how logging is set up and shut down, but this isn't a practical concern that I have as a user of log4j that I'd want to see at the INFO level. It's something I should be able to just take for granted. > ``` > Configuration XmlConfiguration[location=… , lastModified=…] started. > Configuration org.apache.logging.log4j.core.config.DefaultConfiguration@… stopped. > ``` So, the above messages aren't helpful to me at all at the INFO level. I can see how they would be useful at DEBUG, though. Perhaps they might be useful if logging is set up in code, but using the automatic configuration like so many projects do... the best way to use it, in my opinion... these just don't tell me anything useful... not useful enough to be shown it every time when I'm not debugging, anyway. > > This information is less important: > > ``` > Starting configuration XmlConfiguration[location=… , lastModified=…]... > Start watching for changes to … every 0 seconds > Stopping configuration org.apache.logging.log4j.core.config.DefaultConfiguration@… > ``` Of these messages, I probably only care about the middle one, because this something that is only present because I have specifically configured the monitor interval, and diverges from the default expected behavior. So, it's a very user-facing thing: I specifically configured that feature, so it's useful to see, because I don't see it when I haven't configured it. However, it is new, and wasn't there before, so DEBUG probably makes sense for that one as well. > > Do you suggest to switch the 3 statements above to `DEBUG`? > Yes, I think that would be best. They were DEBUG before, in 2.24.0. > > Now, in order to suppress these extra messages, users are likely to turn off status logging at the INFO level, preventing them from seeing more useful information. (See [apache/accumulo#5457](https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/5457)) > > I honestly don't know what useful information you are referring to. IIRC the `INFO` level was mostly unused. Do you have any examples? Important information like log file rollovers are currently at `DEBUG` level. When the reconfiguration occurred, there were messages about those changes which I found useful. I guess we got used to, and liked, the idea that we only saw something if we changed something, and that the status was completely silent otherwise. That was a good design, but it changed after 2.24.0, when it was working well in that version. Essentially, I want a non-noisy way to observe changes. DEBUG is noisy, so I don't want to use that by default. But, WARN or ERROR doesn't show me changes. So, INFO seemed perfectly suited to the "non-noisy way to observe changes" desired outcome, but the recent changes making them more noisy kinda ruined that. I don't know if I have a good argument for keeping them at DEBUG, or if it's just a resistance to change, but I know that 2.24.3 is too noisy at INFO, and 2.24.0 was just right. -- This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service. To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the URL above to go to the specific comment. To unsubscribe, e-mail: notifications-unsubscr...@logging.apache.org For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at: us...@infra.apache.org
