And almost all of us carry a phone that rivaled or exceeds all but the
local I/O capabilities of the first mainframe I worked on!

Life is a wonderful ride.  Just wish I could see what the next 70 years
would bring!

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 3:20 PM Curt Lundgren <[email protected]> wrote:

> In 1976 my first computer was the Netronics Elf II, with the RCA 'COSMAC'
> 1802 processor.  It ran from a cheap 3.58 MHz TV color crystal and
> typically took 16 clock cycles to execute a two-byte instruction.  Long
> jump instructions that could address the full 64k address space were three
> bytes.  So figure perhaps 117,000 instructions/second.  It had 256 bytes of
> RAM and a Pixie chip for video output.  Input was a hex keypad with a
> load/run switch.  You could actually write a program that generated
> graphics that fit in the supplied memory.
>
> It was later upgraded to 7K of RAM, the 8th kilobyte never did work
> right.  I used it to expand the memory of our Datavision D3000 character
> generator at the TV station so we could display and update election
> results.  The graphic artist later gratefully told me it saved him two
> weeks of work, preparing for the election.
>
> Another wire-wrapped custom version of the 1802 computer served as our
> machine control system at the TV station for several years.  A single 4,800
> baud serial cable ran to local interfaces on VTRs, film projectors, slide
> projectors and the Ampex ACR-25B spot player.  Software was done in
> assembly, with source and destination cassette players.
>
> My first PC was probably assembled by Michael Dell, at PC Designs - it was
> a 10 MHz 286 with an incredible one megabyte of RAM.  Then the 30 MB CDC
> Wren drive was added and I was cooking with gas.
>
> Now I'm enjoying an 8 GB Pi 4 with its 500 GB external boot drive, both
> cheaper and vastly faster than those computers of earlier days.
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:42 PM Jack Coats <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yea, to me anymore small 'control' computers are good fun.  And big
>> business for IoT and control systems.
>> I wanted to do control systems (CompSci major and ME minor in college)
>> but got sucked into doing busness
>> apps then systems on mainframes.  I started to get my own minicomputer
>> back in the day when the Altair 8800
>> came out (8 bit Intel 8080 processor, 256bytes static ram, front panel
>> switches to start with, in a kit from MITS)
>> but I eventually maxed it out before moving to a 'big' z-80.  Used full
>> size floppies, 64K ram (another kit from
>> Processor Technology, also their 3P+S interface board kit), a TV
>> Typeriter 2 (kit from Southwest Technology in San Antonio),
>> Heathkit Printer, even a DCHayes modem (300 baud!), but it all worked.  A
>> friend and I put in a 2K EPROM
>> board to put a bios in (Intel Intelec compatible) so we could run CP/M on
>> it.  Eventually had a AI Cybernetics speach
>> synthesizer board, and a Cercia Circuit Cellar camera.  Eventually more
>> computers using the
>> serial cable based $25Network (that did surprisingly well with little
>> overhead).
>>
>> Yea, memories.  Now I have a pi or 3 around, some gathering dust, some
>> being useful and more toys
>> than I have time to deal with.
>>
>> So goes life.  Thanks for bringing back some memories.
>>
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:12 PM 'Michael Chaney' via NLUG <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> My younger son is at Alabama working on an EE degree (you may remember
>>> him as a baby 20 years ago when the wife and kids showed up to a meeting).
>>> Last semester he had a class on microcontrollers, and they specifically
>>> used PIC series microcontrollers.  He (and I) bought this evaluation
>>> package that comes with four different microcontrollers:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/microchip-technology/DM330013-2/2802029?s=N4IgTCBcDaILYEsDGAnA9gZwC7INYAIEEQBdAXyA
>>>
>>> They're interesting because the package contains the CPU along with some
>>> amount of RAM and a little bit of flash.  All of the external pins on the
>>> package are IO pins, except for the required power and clock pins.  The IO
>>> pins are remappable and come in a couple of flavors - some can do analog
>>> and pretty much all can be digital.  They have a couple of built in UARTs.
>>> The whole thing is amazing.
>>>
>>> For the 16-bit versions the RAM tends to be a few K, program size is
>>> 32-128K or so.  It's a Harvard architecture where the program space and
>>> data space are separated, so the program reads from flash.  With that much
>>> memory loading in libraries is iffy at best.  I tend to write simple code
>>> to handle cases that a library function would normally handle.  It's the
>>> opposite of modern programming where we go find a "module" or whatever to
>>> handle every little task.
>>>
>>> Their programs are simple.  The big one at the end was a clock with a
>>> few buttons for setting the time and alarm.
>>>
>>> I've done hardware interfacing like this on an R-Pi, but there's
>>> something just very different when doing it on a simple 16-bit RISCy cpu
>>> with limited everything.  I had to go all out because they were still doing
>>> some remote learning and the kids weren't really getting it.
>>>
>>> I also have an arduino which is awesome, but someone has written code
>>> for pretty much everything already and I'm not convinced that's the way for
>>> kids to learn.  It's a great way to get them involved, but the stuff I've
>>> seen is the equivalent of putting together legos.  If you learn it's a
>>> side-effect.  Of course, you can still write all your own code and all that
>>> - just have to convince kids to do that if they want to learn.
>>>
>>> Anyway, it was interesting getting back to the basics.  And kind of
>>> cathartic to actually care about data and program space usage.
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:52 AM Jack Coats <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Welcome to 'data creep'.  There was the day that we counted bytes of
>>>> code in a program or data, now we just think in megabytes.
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, as we have more capability, we use it, sometimes squander it.
>>>>
>>>>   One of my history examples, I came up with a cost analysis of having
>>>> datacenters and terminals being cheaper than the gen1 (or 2) PCs on
>>>> everyone's desk at the major company where I was working.  My boss told me
>>>> to trash the study because we were going to use desktops no matter what the
>>>> facts were. ... Such is life.
>>>>
>>>>   Since then the costs have changed and individual computers are now
>>>> cheaper.  Mainframes still have their place in real production (huge
>>>> amounts of I/O or certain problems in engineering that can't be easily
>>>> functionally decomposed for multiple small processors, etc, but their value
>>>> for the more common efforts are dwindling as smaller/distributed machines
>>>> make more sense on a case by case basis.
>>>>
>>>> Just my thoughts. ... I'm retired, so my opinion doesn't matter much to
>>>> anyone but me. <<grin>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Andrew Farnsworth <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone else remember when the trial size storage offered by
>>>>> companies like google, backblaze, etc was actually useful?  Today it is
>>>>> still around the same 10 Gb size, but that is much less useful today than
>>>>> it was 20 years ago :-).  Back then, it was HUGE.  Today it is so small 
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> not even willing to give it a trial as my personal NAS has 3 orders of
>>>>> magnitude more storage.  10 Gb would let me store one small VM virtual
>>>>> drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> More as it happens...
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy F
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAB%2B-c-q4SL9k7mqs4AWPQ5dyVYO1vWzAYotvv19Nuzci5DfHTQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ><> ... Jack
>>>>
>>>> If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are
>>>> the product. - Chamath Palihapitiya
>>>>
>>>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I
>>>> learn." - Ben Franklin
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
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>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1z%3D-eriAGT29LSZW3xaAaU2aCicSKxwtkMSPWLTO0WGVw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr.
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://www.michaelchaney.com/
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ><> ... Jack
>>
>> If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are the
>> product. - Chamath Palihapitiya
>>
>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
>> - Ben Franklin
>>
>> --
>> --
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>>
>> ---
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1w%3Dpr-g%2B%3DJnZ2HT04S1-nb4VjS0VQw-vLYZNZWoe6xeYA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
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> .
>


-- 
><> ... Jack

If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are the
product. - Chamath Palihapitiya

"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -
Ben Franklin

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