Hi Italo, Agree.
I don't know which tool Jürgen was referring to, but I'm aware of --tree-depth and --tree-path options in pyang (mentioned in the tree RFC, btw). Cheers, Med Orange Restricted > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Italo Busi <[email protected]> > Envoyé : mercredi 6 novembre 2024 13:03 > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <[email protected]>; > Italo Busi <[email protected]>; Jürgen > Schönwälder <[email protected]>; Lou Berger > <[email protected]> > Cc : Jan Lindblad <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Objet : RE: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis > > > Hi Med, > > IMHO, only the YANG code should be authoritative: the YANG tree > should only be informative to help the readers. > > I see some pressure to IETF community to speed up the standard > process to deliver YANG models. IMHO, reducing the workloads to > the authors would help in this direction. > > What is the value of having tools if their output needs to be > manually fixed? > > Jurgen mentioned a tool that can automatically brake down > diagrams: having this tool available to the whole community would > be great > > Italo > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > <[email protected]> > > Sent: mercoledì 6 novembre 2024 07:55 > > To: Italo Busi <[email protected]>; Jürgen > Schönwälder > > <[email protected]>; Lou Berger > <[email protected]> > > Cc: Jan Lindblad <[email protected]>; [email protected] > > Subject: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis > > > > Hi Italo, > > > > The guidance is actually building on existing ones in Section 3 > of [RFC8340] > > (with one qualification about on where to put long trees). > > > > One of the reasons I expanded the text rather than simple > pointer to Section 3 > > of [RFC8340], is to have a self contained section for the > authors where to look. > > > > BTW, pyang output is not authoritative and I encourage to > review it. For > > example, pyang output for groupings with lists is broken! > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : Italo Busi <[email protected]> > > > Envoyé : mardi 5 novembre 2024 13:25 > > > À : Jürgen Schönwälder > <[email protected]>; > > > Lou Berger <[email protected]> > > > Cc : Jan Lindblad <[email protected]>; [email protected] > > > Objet : [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis > > > > > > > > > By reading the current text in section 3.4, I am getting a > bit > > > worried that we are increasing the workload of the editors of > the > > > YANG models drafts > > > > > > While I fully agree with the initial statement, "YANG tree > > > diagrams provide a concise representation of a YANG module > and > > > SHOULD be included to help readers understand YANG module > > > structure", I am wondering whether authors need to do more > than > > > just copying the tree generated by pyang > > > > > > For example, splitting the output of pyang into smaller > diagrams > > > requires editorial efforts and need to be re-done every time > the > > > YANG model is updated during the draft development > > > > > > In some of the draft I have worked on, I have included some > YANG > > > tree snapshots but regretted this because they quickly tend > to > > > get out of synch during the draft development > > > > > > What would be the drawback to always require the full data > tree > > > to be included into an Appendix, without introducing > different > > > cases? > > > > > > Italo > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jürgen Schönwälder > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: martedì 5 novembre 2024 13:21 > > > > To: Lou Berger <[email protected]> > > > > Cc: Jan Lindblad <[email protected]>; [email protected] > > > > Subject: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis > > > > > > > > Since RFCs nowadays came in multiple formats, we do not > know > > > anymore for > > > > sure what a page is. The text and html renderings do not > seem > > > to be paginated > > > > anymore, the pdf rendering still seems to have pages. The > > > canonical format > > > > seems to be the xml file, which has no pagination either. > > > > > > > > We should rely on good judgment of the authors, a SHOULD > NOT > > > rule looks > > > > like bureaucracy winning over trust into authors to make > > > appropriate choices. > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 10:28:10AM +0000, Lou Berger wrote: > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > See inline > > > > > On 10/29/2024 8:20 AM, [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > The new guidance: > > > > > > > > > > > > * characterizes what is long/too long tree > > > > > > > > > > > In yesterday's session you also mentioned that rfc8340 > didn't > > > define > > > > > what a long/large tree is. I think you must have missed > it > > > in section > > > > > 3.3 of RFC > > > > > 8340: YANG Tree Diagrams > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% > > > 2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Frfc%2Frfc8340%23section- > > > > > 3.3&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166a > > e4 > > > > > 9a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0% > > 7C > > > > > 638664100806701855%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM > > DAiLC > > > > > > JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=J > > > FhcfQiC3ypjhvrJOUO61Ige%2FOKAUEeQai3j4CISU90%3D&reserved=0> : > > > > > > > > > > As tree diagrams are intended to provide a simplified > > > > > view of a module, diagrams longer than a page should > > > generally be > > > > > avoided. > > > > > > > > > > Isn't this sufficient. > > > > > > > > > > > * recommends against including too long trees in the > main > > > doc, while > > > > > > Section 3 of RFC8340has the following: > > > > > > > > > > > > When long diagrams are included in a document, > > > > > > > > > > > > authors should consider whether to include the long > diagram > > > in the > > > > > > > > > > > > main body of the document or in an appendix. > > > > > > > > > > > so want to change the existing non-RFC2119 formulation > > > "should .. include .. > > > > > in an appendix" to "SHOULD NOT include in the main body > of > > > the > > > > > document", is this correct? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > *De :* Lou Berger <[email protected]> *Envoyé :* mardi > 29 > > > octobre > > > > > > 2024 12:34 *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > > > > <[email protected]>; Lou Berger > > > <[email protected]>; > > > > > > [email protected] *Cc :* Jan Lindblad > <[email protected]> > > > *Objet :* > > > > > > RE: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis > > > > > > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this. The new doc says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > These guidelines take precedence over the generic > > > guidance in > > > > > > > Section 3 of [RFC8340]. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you highlight what you see is the differences > between > > > the new > > > > > > section and rfc8340? (In other words, why is a > reference > > > saying > > > > > > authors should follow section 3.3 of rfc8340 > insufficient?) > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > --------- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > On October 29, 2024 4:25:44 AM > [email protected] > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Lou, all, > > > > > > > > > > > > (1) > > > > > > > > > > > > There are RFCs that don’t include the full tree, > but > > > AFAIK there > > > > > > is no RFCs that include a stable pointer for a > tree. > > > There are > > > > > > I-Ds under development that follow that option, but > I > > > don’t think > > > > > > this can be used as example as these are following > what > > > was in > > > > > > rfc8407bis. > > > > > > > > > > > > (2) > > > > > > > > > > > > I paused to reply with the hope to hear more voices > > > about this > > > > > > issue. Till now, no one else indicated preference > for > > > the stable > > > > > > URL option. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that, I prepared a PR to remove that option > and > > > only leave > > > > > > the appendix option. > > > > > > > > > > > > The full diff can be seen at: > > > > > > > > > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > > > Fauthor- > > > tools.ietf.org%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod- > > > > > &data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae4 > > 9a2 > > > > > ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6 > > 38 > > > > > 664100806730122%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi > > LCJQI > > > > > > joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Hxg > > Z > > > jVYygwcP8VWH9I68YvHccEe8Z6huwBlKFqrSrV8%3D&reserved=0 > > > > wg.github.io/rfc8407bis/draft-ietf-netmod- > > > > > > > > rfc8407bis.txt&url_2=https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.c > om/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.c%2F&dat > a=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff73 > 08dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6386649 > 58911869785%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV > 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5H%2FCcG > PskipFgPgEKuNW2XsgNm9dhMY90ShfhLq%2Bbek%3D&reserved=0 > > > om/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-wg.github.io%2Frfc8407bis%2Ftoo- > > > long-trees- > > > > > &data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae4 > > 9a2 > > > > > ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6 > > 38 > > > > > 664100806745673%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi > > LCJQI > > > > > > joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8GCj > > > %2FKulj36AMYl%2Bca%2BmKxpLvrS42PaCjRwSdCZCNo4%3D&reserved=0 > > > > bis/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis.txt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% > > > 2Fauthor- > > > tools.ietf.org%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod- > > > > > wg.gi&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a16 > > 6a > > > > > e49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C > > 0% > > > > > 7C638664100806761930%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA > > wMDAi > > > > > > LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata > > > =6OjfnJAsoqVbAzqtvEUN93UyruW5essv7FQkEs%2FLvX0%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > thub.io/rfc8407bis/draft-ietf-netmod- > > > rfc8407bis.txt&url_2=https://ne > > > > > > tmod-wg.github.io/rfc8407bis/too-long-trees-bis/draft- > ietf- > > > netmod-rf > > > > > > c8407bis.txt> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this captures the opinions heard so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > *De :*Lou Berger <[email protected]> > > > > > > *Envoyé :* mardi 22 octobre 2024 17:29 > > > > > > *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > > <[email protected]>; > > > > > > Lou Berger <[email protected]>; Andy Bierman > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > *Cc :* Mahesh Jethanandani > <[email protected]>; > > > > > > [email protected]; draft-ietf-netmod- > [email protected]; > > > Jan > > > > > > Lindblad <[email protected]>; Kent Watsen > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > *Objet :* RE: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod- > > > rfc8407bis > > > > > > > > > > > > Med, > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > On October 22, 2024 8:22:47 AM > > > [email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please indicate why you think this is a > bad > > > option? What > > > > > > is the harm in recording an option that matches > current > > > practice? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there an example of a published rfc that points > to > > > the full > > > > > > tree via a URL? > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I read the discussion, no one was > agreeing > > > that this > > > > > > approach was a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember that you indicated that you are using > an > > > electronic > > > > > > device to read docs. You can still browse the tree > from > > > the > > > > > > supplied URL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > > > De : Lou Berger <[email protected]> > > > > > > > Envoyé : mardi 22 octobre 2024 14:00 > > > > > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > > <[email protected]>; > > > > > > Lou Berger <[email protected]>; Andy Bierman > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > Cc : Mahesh Jethanandani > <[email protected]>; > > > > > > [email protected]; draft-ietf-netmod- > [email protected]; > > > Jan > > > > > > Lindblad <[email protected]>; Kent Watsen > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > Objet : RE: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod- > > > rfc8407bis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Med, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > On October 22, 2024 1:21:31 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Lou, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Kent rightfully raised the point about the > troubles > > > with long > > > > > > trees that exceeds the max line thing. I also > clarified > > > that, e.g., > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is separate and unrelated topic, talking > about > > > inclusion of > > > > > > full trees in appendices as is currenty allowed for > in > > > rfc8340. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> * Existing specs have provisions for tree > > > diagrams to be > > > > > > included “as a whole, by one or more sections, or > even > > > by subsets > > > > > > of nodes” (8340) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes I'm familiar with that text :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> * There are RFCs out there that do not > include > > > them. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, which is also allowed for in rfc8340 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> This is a MAY after all. We can't mandate that > every > > > doc MUST > > > > > > include the full tree anyway. Are you asking for > that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely not. I'm not quite sure what give you > that > > > > > > impression. I just would like to see the additional > > > option removed > > > > > > as I think it is a bad idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Cheers, > > > > > > >> Med > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > >>> De : Lou Berger > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > >>> Envoyé : lundi 21 octobre 2024 23:38 > > > > > > >>> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>>>; > > > > > > >>> Andy Bierman > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > >>> Cc : Mahesh Jethanandani > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]> > > > >>; > > > > > > >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>; > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:draft- > > > ietf-netmod- > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod- > > > [email protected]%3cmailto:draft-ietf- > > > > [email protected]>>; > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > >>> Lindblad > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; > Kent > > > > > > Watsen > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > >>> Objet : Re: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod- > > > rfc8407bis > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Hi. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Looking at today's (-20) version of the > document, I > > > still see > > > > > > >>> stable pointers as an option. I really don't > see > > > the support for > > > > > > >>> this in the overall discussion and I personally > > > think such is a > > > > > > >>> *bad* idea. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I'd prefer that any references to the "stable > > > pointer" option be > > > > > > >>> removed from the document. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Thanks, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Lou > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On 10/15/2024 2:22 AM, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >>> > Hi Andy, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > RFC8340 leaves it to the authors to include > it or > > > not. It uses > > > > > > >>> statements such as "When long diagrams are > included > > > in a document, > > > > > > >>> .." > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > An outcome of the discussion is that we can't > > > impose one option > > > > > > >>> here. For example, the current situation is > that we > > > do already > > > > > > >>> have RFCs (RFC7407, RFC9182, RFC9291, etc.) > that do > > > not include > > > > > > >>> the full trees because these are too long, the > > > narrative text is > > > > > > >>> good enough, the document itself is +150 pages, > > > etc. Also, > > > > > > >>> including pages and pages of text that exceeds > the > > > max line is not > > > > > > >>> convenient for readers. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > The new guidelines include a provision for > when > > > the full tree is > > > > > > >>> not included for better consistency among > published > > > documents. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > Cheers, > > > > > > >>> > Med > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> >> -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > >>> >> De : Andy Bierman > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > Envoyé : > > > > > > lundi 14 > > > > > > >>> octobre 2024 > > > > > > >>> >> 18:24 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>>> > > > > > > >>> >> Cc : Mahesh Jethanandani > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]> > > > >>; > > > > > > Lou Berger > > > > > > >>> >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>; > > > draft-ietf- > > > > netmod- > > > > > > >>> >> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>; > Jan > > > > > > Lindblad > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; > Kent > > > > > > >>> Watsen > > > > > > >>> >> > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > Objet : Re: [netmod] WGLC on > > > > > > >>> >> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> Hi, > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> IMO we do not need new procedures to save > the > > > reader from a > > > > few > > > > > > >>> extra > > > > > > >>> >> pages of YANG tree diagram text. > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> This is the only option that makes sense to > me: > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> * Include the full tree in an appendix. > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> Andy > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 10:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>>> > > > > > > >>> >> wrote: > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >>> Hi Mahesh, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Yes, this refers to the main body per the > > > structure in > > > > > > >>> >> rfc7322#section-4. > > > > > > >>> >>> Updated accordingly. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> The diff is available using the same link: > > > Diff: > > > > > > >>> >>> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis.txt - draft- > ietf- > > > netmod- > > > > > > >>> >> rfc8407bis.txt > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% > > > 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% > > > 252><ht > > > > > > > > tps://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%252 > > > > > > > > > > >>> >> Faut > > > > > > >>> >>> hor- > > > > > > >>> >> tools.ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com% > > > > > > 7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f > > > > > 5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806792761%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e > > yJWIjo > > > > > > iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7 > > > > > C%7C%7C&sdata=VfNCeAL5MNmPRmZYSMuY2APsbuR%2FXbRYhC2TWipVpvg > > %3D&re > > > > served=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt > p%3A%2F%2Fhtt%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C > 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958911924076%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C% > 7C%7C&sdata=srDAAXFqK4dOzNJHzcApv6NMiwPv36LcFTKkPc8bdMw%3D&reserv > ed=0 > > > > > > p%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40o > > r > > > > > > ange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc > > 4 > > > > > 8b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806808244%7CUnknown%7CTWFp > > bGZsb3 > > > > d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0 > > > %3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yMttcTY8gRLF31qD4UK%2Bw3%2BNDp%2FiV > > hi%2FMk > > > 8%2FYXGlvvw%3D&reserved=0>%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dht > > > > tps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod- > > > > > > >>> wg.gi > > > > > > >>> >>> thub.io > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > > Fthub.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a > > 8f > > > > > > 5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7 > > C > > > > > 0%7C0%7C638664100806824255%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > > C4wLj > > > > > > AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7 > > C > > > > > &sdata=TyRjiAesKMMSGJX5BUXymM1unzDMnvZSEYBVDleJDVA%3D&reserve > > d=0> > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > > Fthub.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a > > 8f > > > > > > 5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7 > > C > > > > > 0%7C0%7C638664100806839350%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > > C4wLj > > > > > > AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7 > > C > > > > > > &sdata=LDY0a4Hv3bqgBGjSDgFbt1Eq%2BVjvrcjV6uG0I4djg0U%3D&reserved= > > > 0>%2Frfc8407bis%2Fdraft-ietf-netmod- > > > > > > >>> >> rfc8407bis.txt%26url_2%3Dhttp > > > > > > >>> >>> s%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-wg.github.io > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > F2fnetmod- > > > > > wg.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7 > > Cc > > > > > > 4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d2 > > > > > 0%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806854954%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ > > WIjoiMC > > > > > > 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7 > > > > > C%7C&sdata=Sy9yOWcDBmeOtu3BcxAg5NWdvaLH9%2Fp%2B%2F4PdutN6ST > > s%3D&r > > > eserved=0><http://2fnetmod- > > > > wg.github.io/>%2Frfc8407bis%2Flong- > > > > > > >>> trees%2Fdraft- > > > > > > >>> >> ietf-n > > > > > > >>> >>> etmod- > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > rfc8407bis.txt&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > > F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com > > %7C > > > > > > c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > > > > > 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806872719%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ > > WIjoiM > > > > > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C% > > > > > 7C%7C&sdata=MP1BKR1%2BEOHWN5ViuE%2BRJiUoQ0%2FvGDGrKrsiag3vqJo > > %3D& > > > > reserved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=h > ttp%3A%2F%2Fh%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C > 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958911972258%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C% > 7C%7C&sdata=dsC6ETRgsXPPvP0Mu3N7b56z2%2FcnzA77LJI3L5YONxc%3D&rese > rved=0 > > > > > ttp%3A%2F%2F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair% > > 40or > > > > > > ange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc > > 4 > > > > > 8b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806888862%7CUnknown%7CTWFp > > bGZsb3 > > > > d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0 > > > %3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GQG6iITz%2FV1bgRRbe3yiEjJzZQl1SbzbYmuH > > xTf9 > > > GRA%3D&reserved=0>%7C3 > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > 60a053d61314c7851bc08dcec6c99f5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > > > > 20 > > > > > > >>> >> %7C0 > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > %7C0%7C638645198411517106%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > > 8e > > > > yJWIjoiMC4wLjAw > > > > > > >>> >> MDAi > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata > > > > = > > > > > > >>> >> PUXU > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > FFa2G1oGYjtnRYtC9hFJkRu5Nx%2FISQob3izoYds%3D&reserved=0> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Thanks. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Cheers, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Med > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> *De :* Mahesh Jethanandani > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]> > > > >> > > > > > > *Envoyé > > > > > > >>> :* > > > > > > >>> >> samedi > > > > > > >>> >>> 12 octobre 2024 01:54 *À :* BOUCADAIR > Mohamed > > > INNOV/NET > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>>> > > > > > > *Cc :* Lou Berger > > > > > > >>> >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; > > > > > > >>> >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>; > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:draft- > > > ietf-netmod- > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod- > > > [email protected]%3cmailto:draft-ietf- > > > > [email protected]>>; > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > >>> >> Lindblad > > > > > > >>> >>> > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; > Kent > > > > > > Watsen > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > >>> *Objet > > > > > > >>> >> :* Re: > > > > > > >>> >>> [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod- > rfc8407bis > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Hi Med, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Speaking as a contributor ... > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> On Oct 11, 2024, at 8:47 AM, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Hi Lou, Kent, all, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Taking into account the feedback received > so > > > far, I suggest > > > > > > >>> the > > > > > > >>> >>> following > > > > > > >>> >>> change: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> OLD: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> YANG tree diagrams provide a concise > > > representation of a > > > > > > >>> YANG > > > > > > >>> >>> module > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> and SHOULD be included to help readers > > > understand YANG > > > > > > >>> module > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> structure. If the complete tree > diagram > > > for a module > > > > > > >>> becomes > > > > > > >>> >> long > > > > > > >>> >>> (more than 2 pages, typically), the > diagram > > > SHOULD be > > > > > > >>> split > > > > > > >>> >> into > > > > > > >>> >>> several smaller diagrams (a.k.a > > > subtrees). For the > > > > > > >>> reader's > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> convenience, a subtree should fit > within a > > > page. If the > > > > > > >>> >> complete > > > > > > >>> >>> tree diagram is too long (more than 5 > > > pages, typically) > > > > > > >>> even > > > > > > >>> >> with > > > > > > >>> >>> groupings unexpanded (Section 2.2 of > > > [RFC8340]), the > > > > > > >>> authors > > > > > > >>> >> SHOULD > > > > > > >>> >>> NOT include it in the document. A > stable > > > pointer to > > > > > > >>> retrieve > > > > > > >>> >> the > > > > > > >>> >>> full tree MAY be included. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> NEW: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> YANG tree diagrams provide a concise > > > representation of a > > > > > > >>> YANG > > > > > > >>> >>> module > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> and SHOULD be included to help readers > > > understand YANG > > > > > > >>> module > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> structure. If the complete tree > diagram > > > for a module > > > > > > >>> becomes > > > > > > >>> >> long > > > > > > >>> >>> (more than 2 pages, typically), the > diagram > > > SHOULD be > > > > > > >>> split > > > > > > >>> >> into > > > > > > >>> >>> several smaller diagrams (a.k.a > > > subtrees). For the > > > > > > >>> reader's > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> convenience, a subtree should fit > within a > > > page. If the > > > > > > >>> >> complete > > > > > > >>> >>> tree diagram is too long (more than 5 > > > pages, typically) > > > > > > >>> even > > > > > > >>> >> with > > > > > > >>> >>> groupings unexpanded (Section 2.2 of > > > [RFC8340]), the > > > > > > >>> authors > > > > > > >>> >> SHOULD > > > > > > >>> >>> NOT include it in the main > > > document. Instead, authors MAY > > > > > > >>> >> consider > > > > > > >>> >>> the following options: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> [mj] Not clear what you mean by “main > > > document”. Do you > > > > mean > > > > > > >>> the > > > > > > >>> >>> normative section of the document? If so, > > > please edit it to > > > > > > >>> say > > > > > > >>> >> that. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Thanks > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> * Provide only a stable pointer to > > > retrieve the full > > > > > > >>> tree. > > > > > > >>> >> The > > > > > > >>> >>> full > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> tree is thus not provided at all. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> * Include a note about how to generate > the > > > full tree. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> * A combination of the first and > second > > > bullets. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> * Include the full tree in an > appendix. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> For convenience: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> - Diff: Diff: draft-ietf-netmod- > > > rfc8407bis.txt - > > > > > > >>> >>> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis.txt > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% > > > 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% > > > 252><ht > > > > > > > > tps://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%252 > > > > > > > > > > >>> >> Fauthor- > > > > > > >>> >> tools.ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com% > > > > > > 7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f > > > > > 5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806918991%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e > > yJWIjo > > > > > > iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7 > > > > > C%7C%7C&sdata=jTBhYuGiw%2Fot%2F4cGtpVSxSM7HkT3B%2FcvR6IRzblm2w > > A%3 > > > > D&reserved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url > > > > > > =http%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair% > > > > > > 40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40 > > b > > > > > fbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806934052%7CUnknown%7CT > > WFpbG > > > > Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI > > > > > 6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=trBrGAzFEGEIhfh4%2BPNs4Vjjd%2BXNn > > %2B0o > > > vwTL5arrozQ%3D&reserved=0>%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dht > > > > tps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod- > > > > > > >>> >> wg.github.io > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > > > Fwg.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7 > > C > > > > > > c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > > > > > 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806949696%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ > > WIjoiM > > > > > > 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> F > > > > > > >>> >> gith > > > > > > >>> >>> ub.com > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > > Fub.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a > > 8f5 > > > > > > a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C > > 0 > > > %7C0%7C638664100807055898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi > > MC4wLjA > > > > > > wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C > > & > > > > > > sdata=KY1spdVRlh3ukyN06ph3gISPBzV%2Becgy0s6rgvRt69Y%3D&reserved=0 > > > > ><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% > > > > > 2Fub.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4 > > a8f > > > > > > 5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7 > > C > > > > > 0%7C0%7C638664100807071783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > > C4wLj > > > > > > AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7 > > C > > > > > 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> > > >>> >>> Med > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> *De :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > > > > >>> >>> *Envoyé :* mercredi 2 octobre 2024 11:13 *À > :* > > > 'Lou Berger' > > > > > > >>> >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>; > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:draft- > > > ietf-netmod- > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod- > > > [email protected]%3cmailto:draft-ietf- > > > > [email protected]>>; > > > > > > Jan Lindblad (jlindbla) > > > > > > >>> < > > > > > > >>> >>> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> *Cc > :* > > > > > > Kent Watsen > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > >>> >> *Objet > > > > > > >>> >>> :* RE: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf- > netmod- > > > rfc8407bis > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Hi Lou, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> - Keeping long trees in the main > document > > > is really not > > > > > > >>> >> helpful to > > > > > > >>> >>> digest a module. I also know by > experience > > > that this > > > > > > >>> raises > > > > > > >>> >> comments, > > > > > > >>> >>> including from the IESG. > > > > > > >>> >>> - Keeping long trees that exceed 69 > line > > > max in the main > > > > > > >>> or > > > > > > >>> >> as an > > > > > > >>> >>> appendix is really hard to follow. > > > > > > >>> >>> - There are already RFCs out there do > not > > > include long > > > > > > >>> trees, > > > > > > >>> >> but a > > > > > > >>> >>> note about how to generate it. The > > > narrative text uses > > > > > > >>> small > > > > > > >>> >> snippets to > > > > > > >>> >>> help readers walk through the model. > > > > > > >>> >>> - Some consistency is needed in how we > > > document our > > > > > > >>> modules + > > > > > > >>> >> help > > > > > > >>> >>> authors with clear guidance (e.g., > > > characterize what is a > > > > > > >>> >> long > > > > > > >>> >>> tree) > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> I’m afraid that we can’t simply leave the > OLD > > > 8407 as it is. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> That’s said, I’m only the pen holder and > will > > > implement > > > > > > >>> whatever > > > > > > >>> >> the > > > > > > >>> >>> WG decides here. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Cheers, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Med > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> *De :* Lou Berger > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > *Envoyé :* > > > > > > mardi 1 > > > > > > >>> octobre 2024 > > > > > > >>> >>> 13:37 *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>>>; > > > > > > >>> >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>; > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:draft- > > > ietf-netmod- > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod- > > > [email protected]%3cmailto:draft-ietf- > > > > [email protected]>>; > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > >>> >> Lindblad > > > > > > >>> >>> (jlindbla) > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > >>> >>> *Cc :* Kent Watsen > > > > > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > > > > > > *Objet :* Re: > > > > > > >>> [netmod] > > > > > > >>> >> Re: > > > > > > >>> >>> WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Med, Jan, WG, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> I have to say that I read the discussion > > > concluding with to > > > > > > >>> NOT > > > > > > >>> >> change > > > > > > >>> >>> the current recommendation, see > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > > > F > > > > > > >>> >> mail > > > > > > >>> >>> archive.ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.co > > > > > > m%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253 > > b > > > > > 6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807140589%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > > 8eyJWI > > > > > > joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0 > > > %7C%7C%7C&sdata=qsNMvTvkfOvGnRenMhLSwGgBOSWtX03vX6TVEou7X > > GQ%3D&re > > > > served=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt > p%3A%2F%2Fhtt%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C > 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958912126893%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C% > 7C%7C&sdata=QZrD4vgLmhDx6Krg1Vsik9zoLZCmM6M2%2Bu%2Fx5V5DaAI%3D&re > served=0 > > > > > > p%3A%2F%2Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%4 > > 0 > > > > > > orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bf > > b > > > > > c48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807156836%7CUnknown%7CTW > > FpbGZs > > > > b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M > > > > > n0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=I7PQXzYGTMNQfvIk15GrIYm4H%2FYzuVVoIJ > > vHpZ > > > 4CTps%3D&reserved=0>%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fnetmo > > > > d%2F0Q0YiyNi15V- > > > > > > >>> Szzf5awLVh- > > > > > > >>> >> 15_c%2 > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > > F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com > > %7C > > > > > > c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > > > > > 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807173045%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ > > WIjoiM > > > > > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C% > > > > > 7C%7C&sdata=K9HTQS6eEvEHh0gI%2BanvbwXOFrdV7idWLzetVngUB2g%3D& > > rese > > > > rved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http% > > > > > 3A%2F%2F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40or > > ange > > > > .com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b > > 92 > > > > > 53b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807192489%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs > > b3d8ey > > > > JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D% > > > > > 7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=D6QMha6Uy%2BWaRh%2BDKPWBt%2FG6RJ3%2BZYI > > asNLytR > > > UxlFY%3D&reserved=0>%7C360a053d61314c78 > > > > > > >>> >> 51bc > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > 08dcec6c99f5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C63864 > > > > 519 > > > > > > >>> >> 8411 > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > 573595%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l > > > > uMzI > > > > > > >>> >> iLCJ > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > BTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FuJbQGSOk7%2Fk > > > > MXATR > > > > > > >>> >> 1fn3 > > > > > > >>> >>> YScP4MBfkRWYvYXz90NyNI%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> I personally use an ereader (or computer) > more > > > than paper and > > > > > > >>> >> having > > > > > > >>> >>> to go to a static URL -- probably when I'm > off > > > line -- does > > > > > > >>> NOT > > > > > > >>> >> seem > > > > > > >>> >>> like something we should be > > > recommending. Furthermore, I'm > > > > > > >>> not > > > > > > >>> >> sure > > > > > > >>> >>> what our process has to say about having > the > > > HTML include > > > > > > >>> *text > > > > > > >>> >>> content* that is not in the text version. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Again just my perspective. > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> What do others think? do they feel strongly > > > that this change > > > > > > >>> >> from the > > > > > > >>> >>> current recommendation (in RFC8340) of > having > > > long trees in > > > > > > >>> >> appendixes > > > > > > >>> >>> is a good or bad idea? (Yes, I'm in the > > > strongly against > > > > > > >>> camp.) > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Thanks, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Lou > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> On 10/1/2024 4:24 AM, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@ > > > > orange.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> Hi Lou, > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> 1. The comment that triggered the > change > > > and companion > > > > > > >>> thread > > > > > > >>> >> where > > > > > > >>> >>> this was discussed and changes proposed > can > > > be seen at: > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > > > F > > > > > > >>> >> mail > > > > > > >>> >>> archive.ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.co > > > > > > m%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253 > > b > > > > > 6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807218227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > > 8eyJWI > > > > > > joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0 > > > > %7C%7C%7C&sdata=PB4vsiUa8qxziZ7Ukkxl3TdYCYDtY0a8CYG6TxY4Dhg%3D > > &re > > > > served=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt > p%3A%2F%2Fhtt%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C > 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d > 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958912169243%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C% > 7C%7C&sdata=zefWbioKHBvnvFu27ZcUJiVFcQGf%2FxQph2ydRm3cXUk%3D&rese > rved=0 > > > > > > p%3A%2F%2Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%4 > > 0 > > > > > > orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bf > > b > > > > > c48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807236040%7CUnknown%7CTW > > FpbGZs > > > > b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M > > > > > n0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KbINQdJdgp1vtJFViA%2B7gXuGvSShxJeaetCl > > %2 > > > FlP87Ws%3D&reserved=0>%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fnetmo > > > > d%2F- > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > b2HX0XUK49qJB19LHu6MC0D9zc%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucada > > > > ir%40o > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> range.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > > > > Frange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C > > c4a > > > > > > 8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20% > > > > > 7C0%7C0%7C638664100807256811%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo > > iMC4w > > > > > > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C% > > > > > 7C&sdata=TtLqWyyWb%2BwejIBTL1Vnbw1F7bD1%2Bo8NNQjDxximv4A%3D& > > reser > > > > ved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3 > > > > > A%2F%2Frange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange. > > com > > > > %7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253 > > b6 > > > > > f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807277742%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8 > > eyJWIj > > > > oiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0% > > > > > 7C%7C%7C&sdata=NOf%2FS%2BV%2BmVoo0kqY3sUbpt80WLS2itsKD1l4YGco > > t5A% > > > 3D&reserved=0>%7C360a053d61314c7851bc08dcec > > > > 6c99f5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc4 > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > 8b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638645198411584985%7CUnknown%7CTWFp > > > > bGZsb3d > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0% > > > 3 > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=r4xdN4asqklRHaI%2BIixWX29CCw7i1QBlmAHlNXr > > > > Kjng > > > > > > >>> >> %3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > _ > > > > > > >>> ____ > > > > > > >>> > ______________________________________ > > > > > > >>> > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent > contenir > > > des > > > > > > >>> informations > > > > > > >>> > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent > > > donc pas etre > > > > > > >>> diffuses, > > > > > > >>> > exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si > vous > > > avez recu ce > > > > > > >>> message > > > > > > >>> > par erreur, veuillez le signaler a > l'expediteur > > > et le detruire > > > > > > >>> ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > > > electroniques etant > > > > > > >>> susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute > > > responsabilite si > > > > > > >>> ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. > > > Merci. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > This message and its attachments may contain > > > confidential or > > > > > > >>> > privileged information that may be protected > by > > > law; they should > > > > > > >>> not be distributed, used or copied without > > > authorisation. > > > > > > >>> > If you have received this email in error, > please > > > notify the > > > > > > >>> sender and delete this message and its > attachments. > > > > > > >>> > As emails may be altered, Orange is not > liable > > > for messages that > > > > > > >>> have been modified, changed or falsified. > > > > > > >>> > Thank you. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________ > > > > > > >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent > contenir > > > des > > > > > > informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne > > > doivent donc > > > > > > >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans > > > autorisation. Si > > > > > > vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le > > > signaler > > > > > > >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les > pieces > > > jointes. Les > > > > > > messages electroniques etant susceptibles > d'alteration, > > > > > > >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce > message a > > > ete altere, > > > > > > deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> This message and its attachments may contain > > > confidential or > > > > > > privileged information that may be protected by > law; > > > > > > >> they should not be distributed, used or copied > > > without > > > > > > authorisation. > > > > > > >> If you have received this email in error, please > > > notify the > > > > > > sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > > > > > >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable > for > > > messages > > > > > > that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > > > > > >> Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________ > > > > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir > des > > > > > > informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne > > > doivent donc > > > > > > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans > > > autorisation. Si > > > > > > vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le > > > signaler > > > > > > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les > pieces > > > jointes. Les > > > > > > messages electroniques etant susceptibles > d'alteration, > > > > > > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message > a > > > ete altere, > > > > > > deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message and its attachments may contain > > > confidential or > > > > > > privileged information that may be protected by > law; > > > > > > > they should not be distributed, used or copied > > > without > > > > > > authorisation. > > > > > > > If you have received this email in error, please > > > notify the > > > > > > sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > > > > > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable > for > > > messages that > > > > > > have been modified, changed or falsified. > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___ > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir > des > > > informations > > > > > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > > > > > > > > > > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans > > > autorisation. Si vous > > > > > > avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le > signaler > > > > > > > > > > > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces > > > jointes. Les > > > > > > messages electroniques etant susceptibles > d'alteration, > > > > > > > > > > > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a > ete > > > altere, > > > > > > deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > > > > > > > > > This message and its attachments may contain > > > confidential or > > > > > > privileged information that may be protected by > law; > > > > > > > > > > > > they should not be distributed, used or copied > without > > > authorisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have received this email in error, please > notify > > > the sender > > > > > > and delete this message and its attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for > > > messages that > > > > > > have been modified, changed or falsified. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___ > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des > > > informations > > > > > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas > etre > > > > > > diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si > vous > > > avez recu > > > > > > ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a > l'expediteur > > > et le detruire ainsi > > > > que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant > > > susceptibles > > > > d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce > message > > > a ete altere, > > > > deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > > > > > > > > > This message and its attachments may contain > confidential > > > or > > > > > > privileged information that may be protected by law; > they > > > should not be > > > > distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > > > > > If you have received this email in error, please notify > the > > > sender and delete > > > > this message and its attachments. > > > > > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for > messages > > > that have been > > > > modified, changed or falsified. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe > send an > > > email to > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jürgen Schönwälder Constructor University > Bremen > > > gGmbH > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 > Bremen | > > > Germany > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list -- [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des > informations > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si > vous avez recu ce > > message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les > messages > > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, > deforme ou > > falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or > privileged > > information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without > authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the > sender and delete this > > message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages > that have been > > modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
