On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, none wrote:

Cheers Alana, Thanks for the insights!

In reference to the innumerable in visually impressive environments.. I
think its very interesting perhaps in context of edges and totalities, the
attempt to focus on the refusal to be described numeriacally right within
a most visually numerial of environments.

the description would most likely be identical with the image as mathesis. this does bring up something interesting, the inability (at least in the past) to make a 'snapshot' of every process operating in a computer at a particular time; I was part of a systems group decades ago at Brown U., and they discussed this at length - the greater the complexity of calculation, the less one could comprehend what was occurring at any particular instant. I imagine this will be denser and truer with quantum computing; one runs into fundamental law -

In mu mind there is a link there with the religiously oriented violence.
Perhaps other violence, however, in terms of religion, there is a possible
social association between an attempt to build a "logical", a Numerable
social environment - that is unable to sustain, or even live with, the
illogical and innumerable within people. Hence, perhaps there can be an
attraction to the readymade false-logic systems that stuff like religions
can offer..
Am mentioning as it might link with the Isis notion..

yes, there's an absolutism at work, I think, in any monotheism, a classical notion of negation (I talk about that in the essay). the illogical etc. is simply collapsed into one of two categories, 0|1. the simplicity might seem absurd, but it's the very simplicity of this that one finds attractive - no more entanglement, 'foggy' solutions, situation ethics. -

Though perhaps am placing my own personal interest in share-=able,
exchange-able, arguable sensations..

Mind - To compute - hence count - is etymologically linked with paving.
With levelling, to prune.
In that sense, like when one cuts grass, paving a way, pruning an idea, or
perhaps ironing clothes even ;) - it can be argued they do some
un-accounted and unaccountable - computing..(??)


paving or flattening seems in a way the opposite, covering over, creating a carapace; perhaps paving in fact is what is totally accounatable...

BTW re latour.
there are a few videos where he talks about composionalism. eg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-02aCvQ-HFs

Will look - haven't had the time to do so yet, and thank you!

- Alan, best cheers


Hey - have a lovely day! :)

aharonone
xx

On Wed, August 26, 2015 2:35 am, Alan Sondheim wrote:


Thank you again, and replies inserted below, some editing -


On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, none wrote:


Clutters.
Etymologically, there is a link to heaps. By dictionary meanings, there
is a collection link. Agree it can be taken as an archive/data-base
where it is not. However, staying with heaps, and heap making - eg throw
a bunch of stuff to form a heap - might point towards a question of How
clutters, or a given clutter might operate?

What's interesting about heaps to me, is that they're actually fairly
structured, top-down, by gravity; there have been numerous studies for
example of sandpiles, what causes slides on the slopes, the maximum
permissible slopes, and so forth; this comes up also in the recent comet
landing and geography.

Clutter isn't top-down, hierarchical; it's everywhere, and often
references data-basing, that the elements have histories, even names, and
other tags - think of a room with a lot of clutter. On the other hand,
the cluttered environments I create in second life or other virtual
worlds, _have no resolutions,_ they're alien, alienware, alienworn - and
for me this relates, say, to the cosmos, to the innumerable, to the
uncounted, unaccountable, unaccounted-for.

From digital environments perspective, a clutter can be said to be
"spaghetti code", no? Or perhaps something that might seem like clutter,
 like when one goes into a jungle for the 1st time, or hears an utterly
 unknown language - everything seems to jumble, to be a clutter - yet
for a trained eye or mind, there are clear and uncluttered patterns.. In
terms of online life, with clusters and networks, do we have online
Heaps/Clutters?


I think we sense cluttering, for example, Facebook seems "increasingly
cluttered," which means, I think, obstructed, as if _obstructed from
without_ - for one's own clutter is often decipherable by the self, but Fb
is clearly corporate, with menus within menus, etc. The trails - trials -
are there, but at first glance unfathomable, and one's always uneasy that
one is missing something, that the 'usual path' will lead elsewhere now,
or come to a blank end...

B Latour talks about Compositionism, as a sort of network actors'
arrangement and rearrangements. I wonder whether in fact these
compositions - and indeed being oriented around them - is not actually
resting upon time based clutters that came together sequentially rather
 than causally, and are then being subjected to a process of entraining
by a pattern seeking/making human mind? (a mind that can make patterns
in a jungle..?)

They came together like gravitational pull on rubble in space :-)
- in other words, striations, compositions, nothing time-based except
coagulations, certainly not sequentially or causally. I think of those 26
independent fundamental constants, something like that...

A recent(ish) review of a Wendy Chun text to do with code, language and
 physicality - e.g. that of machines.
http://www.publicseminar.org/2015/07/wendy-chun-on-software-and-the-mac
hine/

I'll look at this and thanks; I know her and have always admired her
thinking -

However there are also links there to the machinery of capitalism,
which might sort of be connected with the questions to do with socio
economic and environmental questions?

I think for me the world's driven more, at this point, by climate change,
 weaponry, and overpopulation, no matter what the ideology. We behave
like the species we are, every so often a glimmer of something else, like
the current agreement of N and S Korea to actually step down from whatever
 brinks there are...

Thank so much; I haven't read the Latour or the Chun yet!


- Alan, best and cheers!



Cheers and all the bests!


aharone xx



Perhaps interesting in terms of offering a
On Tue, August 25, 2015 1:34 am, Alan Sondheim wrote:



Thanks!, Comments below -



On Mon, 24 Aug 2015, none wrote:



A few pre noting notes:
Hopefully something might be relevant here. Not entirely
comprehending the context apart from - giving a talk.(??)

Giving a talk, which will skitter across the notes; I've never been
able to "read" a talk, or even write one.

However, I did do that silly human thing of checking for a pattern,
and staying with it. Perhaps it could be more riveting to read from
and out such patterns..? I'd do in a personal text, not someone
else's.. Which
kind of takes us right into the pattern/thread that seems to Be..(?)


There are patterns, cross references; I think a major trope for me is
 entanglement, maybe Buddhist depending-arising.

The focus seems to be of examples to do with mashing edges and
totalities of stuff.

And problematizing edges and totalities, as well as structures within
and without boundaries and totalities.

In a sense, without having the totality, the edges might be well
hidden, and by focusing on such endings of things - they seem to
require a perception oriented in absolutes.

Which is where the idea of blankness comes in, endings are always
problematized, at this point even in cosmology.

(An absolutive oriented programming..? ;) )



It seems to have a territorial oriented perception - of spaces,
endings, and edges. These corners are being put together, brought
together as a sort of collage(??). I think am trying to say that
each action of bringing these edges together - perhaps a Surge in
the Notes' own vocabulary - has a unique collection of these ends.

The Surge references the overcoming of all (scientific, biological,
etc.) knowledge, as such grows exponentially. The corners are always a
 melange, abject, as far as culture's concerned. I wouldn't think of
collection (which implies data-bases, etc., and some degree of
exactitude), so much as collectivities.

Hence, it seems that each note can be an example - or Is an
example(??) -
of an edges surge. Here are a few examples: When speaking of life and
death (in virtual worlds), it seems to take these as binary objects,
oppose to one another - hence by putting them together, the edges
become apparent. (this perception is based on language of "death and
"life", rather than a softer focus such as a
process of living, etc..)

Life and death in vr is always a question of representation, as well
as the death of software (or users) itself - for example, the 'body
bags' in many of the MOOs which were abandoned as their subcribers
went elsewhere.


It _is_ always a question of process, but in the real world, death is
a finality, and how does one represent this? Think about it? How can
death and pain, in this regard, be represented, without turning to
cartoon images, etc.?

Dance/movement as a practice that brings together the virtual and
the physical realities. Or the sense of them. Again there is a sense
of edges coming together to form a new element/thing.

When one of my avatars moves in, say, Second Life, it's movement is
almost always a movement translated from physical dance, physical
dancers, using software and topological remappings in mocap. But I'm
always aware of the physicality involved, even in virtual worlds -
there's a kind of trail of flesh...

Glitches - visuals(?? I assume here that we talk of visual ones,
could be all sorts though..) that are made when an edge of code
meets an edge of electronic/electric element/s.

Visual, but also crashes, logging-out of users, etc.



Language and its entangled limits. (i am not sure how this
terminology operates. however, in my mind, this seems to be of a
linked nature with the sense of digital/virtual - often used with a
language for its program - and its intrinsically linked edge - ie.
the materiality of a device/network line, body, etc..)

Yes, here -



The surge ofcourse is an absolute, and ISIS offers a new
absolutativeness. In a sense, ISIS is a sort of an embodied surge,
bringing together the ends of terroristic perception meshed with an
 abosolutist historical perception, and statist/nationalistic
edges, coming from breaks and breaking the Sykes/Picot borders and
colonial assumptions - all occurring at the edges of deserts which
meet fertile lands.

The surge is two-fold, the absolute, but also the growth of knowledge
-
and the tension or torsion between the two regions -

(Perhaps ISIS should be declared a Sondheim performance gone a bit
glitchy..?)

Would NEVER want to be associated that way! :-)



I could go on with examples, including the sense of elements going
Wrong -
ie breaking and by default new corners come together to form a
malfunction sense? (again, wrongness might require a sense of
totality..) Clutter as sense of things coming together, focusing on
the perceptions that rise via the sort of new body that comes out..?


Clutter also as something which can't be mapped, which escapes
mapping...


In that sense, - new body that comes out - I thought that perhaps
the terror algorithm was/is a bit illustrative..? Almost decorative
as such? Just wonder how it might be if it was a terror oriented
programming language.. Or even much more interesting, I think, a
terror calculus - hence allowing new terror formations to be..?

There is a terror calculus, I think, which is the 0/1 section of the
text - it leads nowhere, only to collapse and absolutist division.



Also, talk of computer kind of languages.. Perl and language, and
human language.. Perhaps there could be a perl for camels? A perl
that perhaps is a camel? Or camel oriented? Might be a perl that's
hardly thirsty? Or a perl that is for deserts?

Hey.. Hope this somehow assists in something - or some process -
been a pleasure to delve into! :) Many THANKS for sharing, Alan!

Thank you so much for the close reading; as i said it's really
useful, it's rare to have such feedback, and I'll use it at the talk.

Cheers, and best!
Alan




Cheers and ciaos!
ahanonexx(??)




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