Dear JCR, Thank you for your informative message.
> Things like "HowTo" documents, sites like openbsdsupport.org and lists > like openbsd-newbie@ are more often than not considered garbage. The > reason is simply because you are robbing the reader of the fundamental > and important details that the reader _NEEDS_ to learn. By providing > short-cut documents to just get things working, you are sabotaging the > learning process of the reader. I see. That's a good point. > The "Quick Start" section of your document is missing a lot of things, > in particular, the generally accepted way to "Quick Start" anything on > OpenBSD. > > 1.) Read *_ALL_* relevant man pages, completely and repeatedly until you > understand them. > 2.) Search the mailing list archives for related information. > 3.) Search the commit logs for any new developments and/or corrections. I will add these steps to the HOWTO, making it clear that nobody on the mailing list should be bugged with questions before these steps have been taken. > If end-users are lazy and want to take the easy way out, they should > go back to using linux and MS-Windows. They are not welcome here. That's a pity. I personally think OpenBSD is the _only_ operating system that takes security as seriously as it should be taken, and it would be in everybody's (well, almost everybody's) best interest if they used it. There is nothing wrong with the project not wanting certain users, but it leaves these users with a choice among evils, which is a pity. > People around here have been really trying to be polite recently. The > thing that got me personally was realizing that these days there are > young kids reading these lists. None the less, don't let my politeness > fool you; I still think you are an arrogant, egotistical asshole who has > shown blatant disregard for the education and well being of others as > well as shown complete disrespect to the authors who spend their time > and effort writing correct code and documentation so people can actually > learn and do something useful. I really appreciate your politeness, and also appreciate you pointing out your real feelings in no uncertain words. > If you really want me or anyone around here to change their mind about > you and the crap you're producing, then replace your supposed "HowTo" > with links to the relevant man pages. The reason I wrote the HOWTO is that, in my opinion of course, the manpages don't make it clear how to set things up. Searching the archives for more information came up with some contradictory messages, and some instances of people being misled by the way things worked and the way things were described in the manpages. My HOWTO is an effort to gather the relevant information in one place, and provide clear steps for getting things working. Replacing the HOWTO with links to the manpages is not an option, because, first of all, the manpages don't provide the information that the HOWTO does, and secondly, the manpages are already assumed to have been read, so linking to them again wouldn't add anything. I completely understand your position that documentation should provide the details people need to understand how things work. I agree with that. I would have provided this information if I had, myself, known how things work. However, I don't know this, and it seems the only way to find it out would be to read the source code of various parts of the kernel. Still, I figured I had learned enough to write a useful and helpful document that at least described how to get things running. You clearly think this is harmful; I think it might help some people. > If perchance this assessment of you and your work has incited you enough > to turn on your personal flame thrower, Not at all. Your piece is very well reasoned and even you calling me an arrogant asshole serves a good purpose. > It is my opinion that you have made a serious mistake by not > knowing or not understanding the generally accepted consensus about > correct documentation In that case, you couldn't have done better than to point it out to me, and I'm very grateful that you did. > you won't change my mind or the minds of most long time users and > contributors. I have no intention of doing so. I think your position is perfectly valid. I also think my quest of providing clearer information and making things more accessible is perfectly valid. I can only hope you agree. Sincerely, Bob --- Computers have made our lives much more efficient. Now we can do many more useless things in one day.
