Johannes Rohr writes:
> Indeed. The additional problem with Russian/Cyrillic is that you
> have those various competing encodings, koi8, ISO-8859-5 and I
> think a third one, and so recoding is always trial and error.
This is generally true. At least with Russian and the Asian languages
you have a prayer of figuring things out automatically, but with
Latin encodings, it's pretty much impossible to distinguish the
ISO-8859-X encodings or the Windows 125X encodings.
> The strange thing though, is that /etc/mailman/ru isn't automatically
> re-generated after the encoding has changed.
I've pretty much given up on figuring package managers (both dpkg
family and rpm family). If you're not a hard-core Debian developer
it's generally fastest as well as least effort to report a bug there
(for values of fastest including "not resolved a decade later" ;-).
Of course when they work (almost all of the time) they're wonderful
time-savers. I'm not complaining, believe me!
> but I was kind overwhelmed by it, so what I ended up with was
> installing mailman on a virtual machine and copying the generated
> /etc/mailman/ru from there.
Glad you found a solution! I hope you keep a backup, I doubt dpkg
will delete it, but ....
> I wonder, if in the long run the only sustainable solution is
> upgrading to mailman 3,
For a sufficiently long horizon, yes, that's the only sustainable
solution. I would start planning now, because Mailman 3 is very close
to feature-complete vs. Mailman 2. But there's no hurry to execute.
Your Mailman 2 installation should work fine for a couple more years
at least.
> also having noticed that Debian bullseye seems to have
> removed mailman2 altogether. But the upgrade still isn't
> straightforward, is it?
By and large, it is. Most upgrades do go off without a hitch. Python
has been moving its lists for quite a while; I don't think Mark has
experienced many problems with the transition. It is quite feasible
to run Mailman 2 and Mailman 3 at the same time on the same host at
the cost of a bit of disk space and a few CPU cycles, and so move a
few lists (or many, once that seems safe) at a time.
The remaining pain points that come up repeatedly include
1. Mailman's development typically leads the major distros' packages
by several months. For many users this means the packaged Mailman
3 lacks features they're used to from Mailman 2, that are now
available in the mainline (and often in a released) Mailman 3.
Occasionally there are important bugs that have been fixed that
have not gotten to the distro packages.
2. If you use Abhilash's Docker containers (which he keeps fairly
up-to-date with the mainline), network configuration is difficult
for many users. That's a Docker issue, not a Mailman issue, of
course, but for folks who aren't skilled with containers it can be
hard.
3. Mailman 3 suite was designed for operation on a single dedicated
host to avoid the need to include authentication code in core (in
the early 2010s it was clear that password auth was going to die,
but what would take its place was unclear). Folks trying to
configure multihost configurations usually put them in the DMZ,
and often have rather complicated ideas about how to configure
host names and addresses which Mailman 3 currently can't support.
4. We have few translations. I think we currently support English,
French, German, and recently added Italian.
5. Older Mailman 2 installations sometimes have bogus data in their
databases (for example, illegal addresses on lists and wrong
encodings in the archives) that raise errors when importing to
Mailman 3. These situations generally have to be resolved
manually.
We're working on 1-3, Google Translate or other services can help with
4, and 5 most likely is going to require hand-holding from us since
there's a wide variety of weirdness that's possible. Feel free to ask
us about them (but do ask on mailman-us...@mailman3.org, not here, for
the benefit of others thinking about moving to Mailman 3).
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