That is not enough.

L.

> On 26 Mar 2025, at 14:32, Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Yes - since Alvaro is updating 8060bis he can add text. Simply say low order 
> 24 bits of the 32 bit IID is used as the 24 bits IID in the data plane. 
> 
> Dino
> 
>> On Mar 26, 2025, at 6:27 AM, Victor Moreno <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I pasted below the text currently in section 4.1 of 8060bis. Do you think 
>> this is sufficient to disambiguate the mapping?
>> 
>> Instance ID:  the low-order 24 bits that can go into a LISP data
>>       header when the I bit is set.  See [RFC9300] for details.  The
>>       reason for the length difference is so that the maximum number of
>>       instances supported per mapping system is 2^32, while conserving
>>       space in the LISP data header.  This comes at the expense of
>>       limiting the maximum number of instances per xTR to 2^24.  If an
>>       xTR is configured with multiple Instance IDs where the value in
>>       the high-order 8 bits is the same, then the low-order 24 bits MUST
>>       be unique.
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 12:57 AM Luigi Iannone <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> If text can be added to 8060bis that explains how the mapping between  
>>> 24-bit data-plane IID to 32-bit IID in the control plane is done that would 
>>> be OK.
>>> 
>>> Ciao
>>> 
>>> L. 
>>> 
>>>> On 26 Mar 2025, at 05:06, Victor Moreno 
>>>> <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sounds like we need text in 8060bis specifying the mapping of the LSB from 
>>>> the control plane IID to the 24 bits in the data plane. Is that a 
>>>> reasonable assumption?
>>>> 
>>>> -v
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 5:19 PM Dino Farinacci <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>> Agree. And it shouldn’t go in the DDT spec but where the instance-ID 
>>>>> encoding is defined. That is, the effort for 8060bis. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dino
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2025, at 5:04 PM, Joel Halpern <[email protected] 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If we want to do that, make sure the draft explains what is going on. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 7:42 PM, Marc Portoles Comeras (mportole) wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Another argument supporting having the 32bit range is that recent 
>>>>>>> drafts/RFCs propose use-cases where having IIDs out of the data-plane 
>>>>>>> range may come handy.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For example, the eid-mobility draft proposes using a separate IID for 
>>>>>>> ARP/ND resolution, to simplify encoding and avoid overlapping with L2 
>>>>>>> and L3 IIDs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                 <<There is a dedicated IID used for the registration of 
>>>>>>> the ARP/ND related mappings>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In RFC9735 we say that:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                << It is RECOMMENDED that each use case register their 
>>>>>>> DNs with a unique Instance-ID>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And I believe there are other examples that I’m forgetting now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In all these cases, since the IID may not have a direct mapping to the 
>>>>>>> data-plane encapsulation, it seems unnecessary to spend IIDs within the 
>>>>>>> 24bit range and we can use higher order 32bit IIDs to support the 
>>>>>>> segmentation.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 at 8:19 AM
>>>>>>> To: Luigi Iannone <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>> Cc: LISP mailing list list <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>> Subject: [lisp] Re: IID lengnth
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I cannot find anymore text than what I provided. I can just tell your 
>>>>>>> intent of the designers. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2025, at 1:14 AM, Luigi Iannone <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the document that is authoritative on Instance ID is RFC 9300 (which is 
>>>>>>> standard track), in particular section 8.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <PastedGraphic-1.png>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> LISP VPN is an experimental draft and is not authoritative on IIDs, 
>>>>>>> neither is RFC8060.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I understand your point about “many-to-1”, but can you find text that 
>>>>>>> states how to do the mapping?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Otherwise, if that mapping if specified nowhere then interoperability 
>>>>>>> looks compromised to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This has been pointed out by Ben during his SECDir review 9300: 
>>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lisp/HTKLlXPr9hse-qxK3TIXGhQji4g/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> and that is why 9300 only defines 24-bit IID.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> IMO opinion we shold align everything to 24-bit. Implementations are no 
>>>>>>> compromised if the spec state that 32-bit IID usage is deprecated and 
>>>>>>> even if the IID is store on 32-bit data field only the 24 least 
>>>>>>> significative bits MUST be used as IID.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> L.  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 24 Mar 2025, at 23:01, Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is documented in RFC8060:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <PastedGraphic-1.png>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Joel Halpern <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can find reference to mapping IIDs to forwarding contexts. Upon 
>>>>>>> consideration, I see what that is a matter of local configuration.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But I can't find anything in there that seems to discuss mapping 32 bit 
>>>>>>> IDs to 24 bit IDs, much less something that specifically says "use the 
>>>>>>> lower 24 bits".  Can you take a look at the draft and tell me what I 
>>>>>>> missed?  (I can well believe I missed something.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 3/24/2025 5:45 PM, Dino Farinacci wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It should be in draft-ietf-lisp-vpn. I haven't checked recently.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 24, 2025, at 2:40 PM, Joel Halpern <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino, you seem to have responded to a different question than Luigi 
>>>>>>> asked.  He didn't ask where the conversion was discussed, nor where it 
>>>>>>> was implemented.  He did not ask why you want it this way.  He asked 
>>>>>>> where the spec describes it.  That does not require email archeology.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 3/24/2025 4:35 PM, Dino Farinacci wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 24 Mar 2025, at 14:51, Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The low order 24 bits of the 32 bits in the control plane is used in 
>>>>>>> the data plane.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can you point me where the conversion is specified?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No. It happened multiple times over a 10 year period. I am not going to 
>>>>>>> take time to look it up. And it doesn't matter, the intent was to do a 
>>>>>>> many-to-1 mapping between the control-plane IID (32-bits) to the 
>>>>>>> data-plane IID (24 bits).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We did this at cisco so we were not limited to 2^^24 VPNs and 
>>>>>>> potentially have to same size problem VLANs had. So if you build a 
>>>>>>> collection of xTRs from the mapping system that uses the IID 32-bit 
>>>>>>> value 0x00000001 and other set that uses the same value the control 
>>>>>>> plane makes sure that the data-plane doesn't overlap among xTRs. So 
>>>>>>> each set can use 0x000001 (24-bits) in the data plane.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It’s a feature and implemented. Do not remove this. You break 
>>>>>>> implementations.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you remeber you made the exact same argument for 9300. IETF security 
>>>>>>> review pointed out the inconsistency of the argument and ended up 
>>>>>>> defining IID as a 24-bit field.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You will break implementations. And I am trying to perserve them. I'm 
>>>>>>> not going to bring this up again. If you do not include a 32-bit IID in 
>>>>>>> the LISP-DDT draft, I cannot accept and support it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If I receive a data plane packet with a certain IID value on 24-bits 
>>>>>>> and I have in my control plane several 32-bit IIDs with the same 
>>>>>>> 24-bits value there is no way I can reasonably know which 32-bits IID 
>>>>>>> is the correct one. This can also be a security issue.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> See above.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We can agree that we have different views on this topic. Hoep the group 
>>>>>>> will help to make a decision ;-)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just don't break implementations. Or more to the point, don't make 
>>>>>>> 8111bis irrelevant.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> L.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This has been brought up several times before (by you)  and I have made 
>>>>>>> the same comment.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 24, 2025, at 6:41 AM, Luigi Iannone <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Dino,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 18 Mar 2025, at 22:04, Dino Farinacci<[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regarding what you said here Luigi, creating a 32-bit IID was 
>>>>>>> intentiional so you can have more than 2^24 VPNs per instance of a 
>>>>>>> data-plane. That is you can duplicate IIDs if different mapping systems 
>>>>>>> were used for the same underlay.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, but RFC 9300 specifies IID as a 24 bits field. There is no 
>>>>>>> inter-operable description in how to convert a 32-bit field in a 24-bit 
>>>>>>> and vice versa. Hence we should just stick to 24 bits.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also there was something you said that was incorrect. You said "on the 
>>>>>>> wire the IID is 24-bits”.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You are right on this. I did remeber the 8060 type 2 LCAF wrongly.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well when control plane messages are sent on the wire they are 32-bits. 
>>>>>>> So in data packets its 24 and in control packets its 32.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Which is an inconsistency and we should fix this now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Luigi
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dino
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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