On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 at 12:17, Filip Skokan <[email protected]> wrote:

> AKP
>> ===
>>
>> Defined in draft-ietf-cose-dilithium, AKP is tightly bound to a specific
>> alg, meaning the key is intended for only one mode.
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>> If the same key needs to be usable with multiple alg values (e.g.,
>> ML-KEM-768 and ML-KEM-768+AES128KW), it must be published multiple times in
>> the JWK, once for each alg.
>> This duplication increases operational complexity. Key lifecycle
>> management must be tracked across multiple JWKs with identical key material.
>> Each duplicated key requires a distinct kid, adding further overhead.
>>
>
> Multiple participants have come forth saying that this isn't a concern. I
> for one see not being able to use a JWK with multiple algs as a Pro, not a
> Con.
>

I hear you, it sounds like you are saying you want to restrict the key to a
single mode of use.

Cheers,
-Tiru


>
> S pozdravem,
> *Filip Skokan*
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 at 08:42, tirumal reddy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I watched the video recordings, and the WG chair decided to continue the
>> discussion on the mailing list. I'm listing the pros and cons here to
>> invite further input from the WG:
>>
>> OKP
>> ===
>>
>> Pros:
>>
>> 1. Already defined in RFC 8037 and supported by JOSE implementations.
>> 2. Allows flexible alg assignment, the same key can be valid for use in
>> both modes: Direct key agreement and KEM with key wrapping.
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>> 1. The opposition to "OKP" has been that it looks odd.  However, RFC 8037
>> states that it doesn’t imply an elliptic curve.
>>
>> AKP
>> ===
>>
>> Defined in draft-ietf-cose-dilithium, AKP is tightly bound to a specific
>> alg, meaning the key is intended for only one mode.
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>> If the same key needs to be usable with multiple alg values (e.g.,
>> ML-KEM-768 and ML-KEM-768+AES128KW), it must be published multiple times in
>> the JWK, once for each alg.
>> This duplication increases operational complexity. Key lifecycle
>> management must be tracked across multiple JWKs with identical key material.
>> Each duplicated key requires a distinct kid, adding further overhead.
>>
>> New Key Type (e.g., KEM)
>> ====================
>> {
>>   "kty": "KEM",
>>   "kem": "ML-KEM-512",
>>   "pub": "...",
>>   "priv": "...",
>>   "alg": "ML-KEM-512+AES128KW" // optional
>> }
>>
>>
>> Pros:
>> =====
>> 1. Similar to "OKP", it avoids the need for key duplication across
>> different alg values.
>>
>> Cons:
>> =====
>> Existing JOSE/COSE libraries would need to be updated to support it.
>> Slightly more work in the short term, but offers long-term clarity and
>> simplicity.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Tiru
>>
>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 at 17:31, Filip Skokan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Tiru,
>>>
>>> Please publish a revision that reverts back to using AKP. There was no
>>> consensus on switching away from AKP in the first place, and the vote that
>>> was requested on whether to use OKP resulted in a clear "No". I ask that
>>> you publish with AKP again because the longer a latest draft shows the use
>>> of OKP the more likely it is that implementations will pick up on it, which
>>> they shouldn't.
>>>
>>> S pozdravem,
>>> *Filip Skokan*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 at 09:15, tirumal reddy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The revised draft addresses all comments received from the WG,
>>>> including those raised during the presentation at IETF-123. The only
>>>> remaining issue is the choice between using "OKP", "AKP", or defining a new
>>>> key type.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Tiru
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 at 12:42, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Internet-Draft draft-ietf-jose-pqc-kem-03.txt is now available. It is
>>>>> a work
>>>>> item of the Javascript Object Signing and Encryption (JOSE) WG of the
>>>>> IETF.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Title:   Post-Quantum Key Encapsulation Mechanisms (PQ KEMs) for
>>>>> JOSE and COSE
>>>>>    Authors: Tirumaleswar Reddy
>>>>>             Aritra Banerjee
>>>>>             Hannes Tschofenig
>>>>>    Name:    draft-ietf-jose-pqc-kem-03.txt
>>>>>    Pages:   23
>>>>>    Dates:   2025-08-07
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract:
>>>>>
>>>>>    This document describes the conventions for using Post-Quantum Key
>>>>>    Encapsulation Mechanisms (PQ-KEMs) within JOSE and COSE.
>>>>>
>>>>> About This Document
>>>>>
>>>>>    This note is to be removed before publishing as an RFC.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Status information for this document may be found at
>>>>>    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jose-pqc/.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Discussion of this document takes place on the jose Working Group
>>>>>    mailing list (mailto:[email protected]), which is archived at
>>>>>    https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cose/.  Subscribe at
>>>>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose/.
>>>>>
>>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jose-pqc-kem/
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also an HTML version available at:
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-jose-pqc-kem-03.html
>>>>>
>>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>>>> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-jose-pqc-kem-03
>>>>>
>>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
>>>>> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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