On 08/21/2018 01:54 PM, Andy wrote: > Thank you so much Paul! > > That gives me something to start working on/pick apart. I see now how > onscreen vs. offscreen works and can concentrate on getting the > onscreen working the way I want first since they are very similar. > > 1) "I assume you want to fill the depth buffer with a simple shader > right?" > > I think so? Ultimately I want to experiment with a cel-shaded scene, > but for now I'd be happy with adding some black contours on my > entities using depth - slightly thicker lines closer to the camera, > thinner farther away. Is this the right setup for that?
Hmm that's not necessarily what I pictured. Usually a render pass where the depth buffer is filled is used as an optimization technique so that 1) You draw your scene with a very simple shader to fill the depth buffer 2) You draw you scene again using a more complex shader but you then take advantage of the fact that the GPU will only execute the fragment shader for fragment whose depth is equal to what is stored in the depth buffer. If you want to draw contours (which is usually referred as silhouetting) the technique is different. Meshes are composed of triangles which are specified in a given winding order (order in which the triangles vertices are specified, either clockwise or counterclockwise). That winding order can be used at draw time to distinguish between triangles which are facing the camera and triangles which are backfacing the camera. (Usually another optimization technique is to not draw backfacing triangles a.k.a backface culling). A possible silhouetting technique implementation can be to: 1) draw only the back faces of the mesh (slightly enlarged) and with depth writing into the depth buffer disabled. 2) draw the front faces of the mesh (with depth writing enabled) See http://sunandblackcat.com/tipFullView.php?l=eng&topicid=15 for a more detailed explaination, there are other implementation with geometry shaders as well (http://prideout.net/blog/?p=54) In practice, you would play with render states to control back face / front face culling, depth write ... e.g: RenderStateSet { renderStates: [ DepthTest { depthFunction: DepthTest.Equal } // Specify which depth function to use to decide which fragments to key NoDepthWrite {} // Disable writing into the depth buffer CullFace { mode: CullFace.Front } // Cull Front faces (usually you would do back face culling though) ] } Note that cell shading might yet be another technique (with a different implementation than silhouetting). Usually it involves having steps of colors that vary based on light position in your fragment shader. It might even be simpler to implement than silhouetting actually. The above link actually implements a combination of both techniques. > > 2) "Have you tried the rendercapture ones?" > > Yes I have. That's how I got my render capture working (once those > examples worked). > > One thing that wasn't clear to me before was where to attach the > RenderCapture node. In the rendercapture example, it's created and > then the forward renderer is re-parented, which is what I did with > mine. Your outline makes more sense. I suppose it was made purely by convenience to avoid having to rewrite a full FrameGraph, but I do agree that makes understanding a lot harder. > > ClearBuffers (and NoDraw!) now make sense too. In QForwardRenderer > they are on the camera selector which seems strange. That's a small optimization. If your FrameGraph results in a single branch (which QForwardRenderer probably does), you can combine the ClearBuffers and the CameraSelector as that translates to basically clear then draw. If your framegraph has more than a single branch: RenderSurfaceSelector { Viewport { CameraSelector { ClearBuffers { ... RenderPassFilter { ... } // Branch 1 RenderPassFilter { ...} // Branch 2 } } } } What would happen in that case is: 1) clear buffers then draw branch 1 2) clear buffers then draw branch 2 So in the end you would only see the drawings from Branch 2 because the back buffer was cleared. In that case you should instead have it like: RenderSurfaceSelector { Viewport { CameraSelector { ClearBuffers { ... RenderPassFilter { ... } // Branch 1 } RenderPassFilter { ...} // Branch 2 } } } or (which is a bit easier to understand but adds one branch to the FrameGraph) RenderSurfaceSelector { Viewport { CameraSelector { ClearBuffers { ... NoDraw {} } // Branch 1 RenderPassFilter { ... } // Branch 2 RenderPassFilter { ...} // Branch 3 } } } > > 3) If I want to use any of the "default materials" in extras - Phong, > PhongAlpha, etc - then in (3) and (4.3) the filterkeys must be > "renderingStyle"/"forward", correct? Or can I even use them anymore if > I'm going this route? Correct. The RenderPassFilter is really there to allow you to select which RenderPass of your Material's Technique to use. So the default materials can only be used if your RenderPassFilters has filterKeys that match any of the filterKeys present on the Material's RenderPasses. Not that this can result in several RenderPasses to be selected (if your material defines several render passes per technique) So you could probably hijack the default materials and add FilterKeys or RenderPasses (at which point it's probably easier to roll your own Material). Another possible approach is to have 2 Entities referencing the same GeometryRenderer but each Entity having a different Material and a different Layer component. You could then use a LayerFilter in the FG to draw all Entities that have a given Layer first, then select all Entities that have the other layer to draw second. That might be a way to reuse the default Materials in some cases and not mess with RenderPasses and RenderPassesFilters. (I think we have a layerfilter manual test you could take a look at) Thinking back about a depth filling pass, your Material would likely have a Technique with 2 render passes, one with keys to use when we want to fill the depth buffer and one with keys to use to draw. > > 4) I will use the offscreen to generate snapshot images and video - I > assume I can turn offscreen rendering on/off dynamically by simply > enabling/disabling the RenderTargetSelector? I suppose yes (haven't tested) or you could add a NoDraw {} and toggle its enabled property to decide when to execute that part of the FG. > > > Thanks again for your help. I finally feel like I'm in danger of > understanding something here! > > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 1:20 AM Paul Lemire <paul.lem...@kdab.com > <mailto:paul.lem...@kdab.com>> wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > Please see my reply below > > > On 08/15/2018 02:59 PM, Andy wrote: >> I've been struggling with framegraphs for a very long time now >> and still don't feel like I understand their structure - what >> goes where or what kind of nodes can be attached to what. I can >> throw a bunch of things together, but when it doesn't work I have >> no idea how to track down what's missing or what's in the wrong >> place. >> >> Can anyone give an outline of what a framegraph would look like >> to facilitate all of the following for a given scene: >> >> 1. rendering in a window onscreen >> 2. depth pass for shaders to use > I assume you want to fill the depth buffer with a simple shader right? >> 3. render capture for taking "snapshots" of what the user is >> seeing onscreen >> 4. offscreen rendering of the current scene at a specified size >> (not the UI window size) >> 5. render capture of the offscreen scene to an image > > I've not tested but the I would image what you want would look > like the frame Graph below: > > RenderSurfaceSelector { // Select window to render to > > Viewport { > > // 1 Clear Color and Depth buffers > ClearBuffers { > buffers: ClearBuffers.ColorDepthBuffer > NoDraw {} > } > > > // Select Camera to Use to Render Scene > CameraSelector { > camera: id_of_scene_camera > > // 2 Fill Depth Buffer pass (for screen depth buffer) > RenderPassFilter { > filterKeys: [ FilterKey { name: "pass"; value: > "depth_fill_pass"] // Requires a Material which defines such a > RenderPass > } > > // 3 Draw screen content and use depth compare == to benefit for z > fill passs > RenderPassFilter { > filterKeys: [ FilterKey { name: "pass"; value: "color_pass"] // > Requires a Material which defines such a RenderPass > RenderStateSet { > renderStates: DepthTest { depthFunction: DepthTest.Equal } > RenderCapture { // Use this to capture screen frame buffer > id: onScreenCapture > } > } > } > > // 4 Create FBO for offscreen rendering > RenderTargetSelector { > target: RenderTarget { > attachments: [ > RenderTargetOutput { > attachmentPoint: RenderTargetOutput.Color0 > texture: Texture2D { width: > width_of_offscreen_area; height: height_of_offscreen_area; .... } > }, > RenderTargetOutput { > attachmentPoint: RenderTargetOutput.Depth > texture: Texture2D { width: > width_of_offscreen_area; height: height_of_offscreen_area; .... } > } ] > } // RenderTarget > > // Note: ideally 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 and 1, 2, 3 could be > factored out as a reusable subtree (if using QML) > > // 4.1 Clear FBO > ClearBuffers { > buffers: ClearBuffers.ColorDepthBuffer > NoDraw {} > } > > // 4.2 Fill Depth Buffer pass (for offscreen depth buffer) > RenderPassFilter { > filterKeys: [ FilterKey { name: "pass"; value: > "depth_fill_pass"] // Requires a Material which defines such a > RenderPass > } > > // 4.3 Draw content into offscreen color buffer and use depth > compare == to benefit for z fill pass > RenderPassFilter { > filterKeys: [ FilterKey { name: "pass"; value: > "color_pass"] // Requires a Material which defines such a RenderPass > RenderStateSet { > renderStates: DepthTest { depthFunction: DepthTest.Equal } > RenderCapture { // Use this to capture offscreen frame > buffer > id: offScreenCapture > } > } > } > } // RenderTargetSelector > > } // CamerSelector > > } // Viewport > > } // RenderSurfaceSelector > > > >> >> Using the forward renderer in Qt3DExtras, I can do (1) and (3), >> but I've been supremely unsuccessful at implementing any of the >> rest despite many many attempts - even working with the examples. >> (And the deferred renderer examples - which might help? - don't >> work on macOS.) > Have you tried the rendercapture ones ? which are in tests/manual >> >> I am using C++, not QML. I tried replacing my framegraph with a >> QML-specified one but can't get that to work either (see previous >> post to this list "[Qt3D] Mixing Quick3D and C++ nodes"). >> >> Can anyone please help? I'm stuck. >> >> Thank you. >> >> --- >> Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com >> twitter ~ @asmaloney <https://twitter.com/asmaloney> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Interest mailing list >> Interest@qt-project.org <mailto:Interest@qt-project.org> >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest > > -- > Paul Lemire | paul.lem...@kdab.com <mailto:paul.lem...@kdab.com> | Senior > Software Engineer > KDAB (France) S.A.S., a KDAB Group company > Tel: France +33 (0)4 90 84 08 53, http://www.kdab.fr > KDAB - The Qt, C++ and OpenGL Experts > > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > twitter ~ @asmaloney <https://twitter.com/asmaloney> > -- Paul Lemire | paul.lem...@kdab.com | Senior Software Engineer KDAB (France) S.A.S., a KDAB Group company Tel: France +33 (0)4 90 84 08 53, http://www.kdab.fr KDAB - The Qt, C++ and OpenGL Experts
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