Often a tile is worked on by a number of people. Perhaps "ready for review"
accommodates having a number of contributers, and also has the connotation
that it's finished?
Hopefully the new Learn OSM modules and possibly text with each task
pointing newbies to those modules will enlighten them on what it all means
before they contribute.
How can we encourage newbies to take the time to go through some training?
Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.
On August 28, 2015 10:01:28 PM "Robert Banick" <[email protected]> wrote:
I really like both proposed wording changes - they send the right message
to new contributors. My only concern is that "submit for review" implies
that there *will* be review, which we can't always guarantee.
The number of regular validators has gone way up in the last few years and
that's been huge for HOT. But we still can't validate every tile. I worry
that newcomers won't understand this and will get frustrated if their tile
doesn't get reviewed. I'm sure some people really look forward to that
green square saying they did it well.
Is there some way we can verbally message this in the TM? Maybe a popup
modal the first time someone submits for review explaining these system?
—
Sent from Mailbox
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Martin Dittus <[email protected]> wrote:
As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m
starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers.
Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.
In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an expert —
it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels. A second
pair of eyes.
An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second
opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?
m.
On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and I
can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that
there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit
for review'.
A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me
initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review'
implies that:
- a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch it, and
- b) I should expect feedback
This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens the
blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four words of
explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I understand the time
pressure.)
Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are
useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new
ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
David
On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi!
I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still fairly
new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the past.
1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own (I
haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on a
mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure about,
mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of your
mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
would be nice.
2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making any
changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for the
task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users in the
past. "They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
something." I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
since I'll just be one more user on the list.
3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map it
completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...
4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will
result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated, but
no tiles are actually being finished.
-- Jarmo
On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
>
>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger "I've done
some work but not completed the tile could someone review it please." I'd
rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident
enough to mark a tile complete.
>
> Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well
worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never
mark their first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map.
>
> I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649
>
> m.
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