Hi Pierre-Jean, I'm following up privately as well as to the list in case you're not subscribed. I apologize for the intrusion if it is one.
Also I think I misunderstood one of your points and I wanted to clear it up. (I made some minor formatting changes for line length purposes.) At 2021-08-11T00:14:43+1000, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > Hi, Pierre-Jean! > > At 2021-08-09T13:42:39+0200, pierrejean.fic...@posteo.net wrote: > > To add to the discussion concerning refer, here is an excerpt of my > > past work and choices on that subject. > > > > There's an ISO standart which defines the needed and optional fields > > of a bibliography list, as well as their order: ISO-690. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_690 > > > > It's unfortunately not much used, and even worst, not freely > > available... But the idea to define fields and their order and let > > the choice of typography and punctuation to the user is valuable. > > Agreed on all points. I find proprietary standards to be dubious > things. > > > For my thesis, I had to hack refer to make it sort the bibliography > > list according to the order of fields defined by that standart. > > Yes, this is certainly something for which a communication channel is > needed to the preprocessor, to suit the many different citation styles > that control this aspect of formatting as well. > > > I needed the following fields, that I implemented in u-ref.tmac, for > > utmac: > > > > %H information about the publication (first edition, french edition, > > etc.) > > This would serve the need I raised (for an edition number) just fine. > > > %h heading of the section in which the citation appears. > > > > %M the collection in which the book in published. > > Doesn't %B already do this? > > %B For an article that is part of a book, the title of the > book. I retract this. If I undersand you correctly, we might use %M for things like the "Loeb Classical Library" series, or, perhaps, George R. R. Martin's _Song of Ice and Fire_. > > %P total number of pages of the book. > > This collides with an existing usage. > > %P Page number. A range of pages can be specified as m-n. > > > %p page of the citation. > > Any chance you might consider swapping %p and %P in utmac? Also, > because I'm curious, is there really a citation format that demands > the total number of pages in the book? :-O (Checking your Wikipedia > URL...it's apparently the ISO 690 practice for citing an entire work. > Good grief.) > > > %U co-author, translator, etc. > > For GNU refer(1) I think we'd want to tighten the semantics of this to > just the translator; %A already supports multiple authors. > > %A The name of an author. If the name contains a suffix > such as “Jr.”, it should be separated from the last name > by a comma. There can be multiple occurrences of the %A > field. The order is significant. It is a good idea al‐ > ways to supply an %A field or a %Q field. > > > %w which kind of electronic document (CDROM, online, etc.) > > > > %x url of an electronic document. > > > > %y update date of an electronic document. > > > > %z last access to an electronic document. > > I think most of your extensions seem sound, with the exceptions of %B > and %P, and with a tweak to %U. > > > I also implemented: > > > > - two formats: one for notes, and another for the bibliography list, > > I think there's already infrastructure for this but it might not be > sufficiently developed in groff's macro packages. > > > - a contextual substitution of the references by "ibid." or "op. cit. > > p. xx." > > No loc. cit.? ;-) > > For reference, here's how the field letters were "standardized" in the > old days[1]. > > %A Author's name > %B Book containing article referenced > %C City (place of publication) > %D Date of publication > %E Editor of book containing article referenced > %F Footnote number or label (supplied by \fIrefer\fP\|) > %G Government order number > %H Header commentary, printed before reference > %I Issuer (publisher) > %J Journal containing article > %K Keywords to use in locating reference > %L Label field used by \fB\-k\fP option of \fIrefer\fP > %M Bell Labs Memorandum (undefined) > %N Number within volume > %O Other commentary, printed at end of reference > %P Page number(s) > %Q Corporate or Foreign Author (unreversed) > %R Report, paper, or thesis (unpublished) > %S Series title > %T Title of article or book > %V Volume number > %X Abstract \(em used by \fIroffbib\fP, not by \fIrefer\fP > %Y,Z ignored by \fIrefer\fP > > At a glance, these semantics were unchanged from 4.2BSD (1983) through > to 4.4BSD (1994). > > We can see here how %F, %M, and %X got freed up. (GNU refer(1) now > calls "%X" the "annotation".) > > Regards, > Branden > > [1] https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.2BSD/usr/man/man1/addbib.1 Regards, Branden
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