On Tuesday, 22 August 2017 09:12:45 UTC+3, Henrik Johansson wrote: > > I am sorry Dave but you can ignore the needs of the many few as much as > you want but the tiny things won't go away. > > There probably won't be any _written_ experience reports for most of the > little things. The things that people live through and sometimes just have > the time to email the list about a couple of times. It doesn't make them go > away. The occasional "blog post in anger" happens of course and I have > surely missed some things. >
People need to understand that experience reports are essential. We need to reiterate it, until people start properly writing them. > The sheer number of voices concerning generics is a huge experience report > in my book as is error handling although very different in nature (but > maybe related?). > Let's say we take 30 different designs for generics or error handling or enums or ... whatever feature X... then 1. What would be the deciding factor for what would be better for Go? 2. Which of these features would be best to implement first? 3. What would give us the best understanding how a particular design would affect the community, packages and code? 4. How can we understand which use-cases does that design cover and what it leaves unsolved? 5. What complementary features would be helpful? The mantra "this is a neat feature from [other language] I think it would > be useful" seems to be often used as a hammer to quench any ideas that only > stem from previous _experience_ in other languages. > What is Go if not a reaction to previous experience from C and C++? We > could have drawn much more from previous experience. We did with > concurrency and compiler speed for example. Why not with logging, generics > or error handling? I would say that Go is first and foremost a reaction to > previous experience and second an iterative model to hammer out the details > and that is very good. We don't reinvent the wheel, we make faster and > safer wheels. > These cases can easily be written up as experience reports: 1. example how you write your Go code and 2. example how it can be written in C++; 3. tell why the C++ felt better and why Go fell short. The problem is not lack of features... the problem is in understanding the problem. > Anyway I hope that not only huge "experience reports" are added to the > scales when it really comes down to choosing the next big direction for > this very nice language. > Experience Reports don't have to be huge, from the wiki: *The best experience reports tell:* *(1) what you wanted to do,* *(2) what you actually did, and* *(3) why that wasn’t great, illustrating those by real concrete examples, ideally from production use.* If you can tell that in one paragraph and 3 links to real-world-code-examples -- great, it will be a shorter read. *For example take a look at https://varunksaini.com/blog/use-case-for-generics/ -- short, sweet and to the point* > > tis 22 aug. 2017 kl 00:41 skrev Dave Cheney <[email protected] > <javascript:>>: > >> I'd like to echo Egon's point. We were both in the audience for Russ's >> announcement (although the video and the text are faithful reproductions) >> and Russ clearly asked for examples where "Go fails to scale" as starting >> points for a future version of Go. >> >> Starting from "this is a neat feature from [other language] I think it >> would be useful" is eating the elephant from the wrong end. Russ asked for >> written reports showing where the language does not live up to its promise >> of developer productivity and production scalability. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "golang-nuts" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
