I dislike metaphors in reasoning but in the travel case the publishers are more 
like the official who approves your visa to enter their country, for a fee. The 
idea that one can restructure an industry without consulting the leading 
producers strikes me as unlikely to work. It is a coup and they are notable 
limited in success.

David

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Heather Piwowar <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> I believe the ones who "really live and breathe these issues on a daily 
> basis" are actually the researchers and public and policy makers who can't 
> get access to research they need to improve society.
> 
> They, and many others who share their views (myself included), don't 
> participate in the OSI discussions because they just plain start from the 
> wrong place.  The "needs" of publishers shouldn't matter any more than the 
> "needs" of travel agents mattered, I believe.   
> 
> Some of us are listed in the OSI website because we dipped our toe in before 
> realizing that it wasn't a group where our time was best spent.
> 
> Heather
> 
> ---
> Heather Piwowar, cofounder
> Our Research: We build tools to make scholarly research more open, connected, 
> and reusable—for everyone.
> follow at @researchremix, @our_research, and @unpaywall
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:09 AM Glenn Hampson 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sorry. The web list can be hard to parse because it’s alphabetical by first 
>> name and not sortable by stakeholder group, plus it hasn’t been updated in a 
>> while. But there are actually around a dozen active researchers in OSI 
>> (actually more---that’s just their “primary” designation for “accounting” 
>> purposes but they can also be a the head of a research organization and an 
>> active researcher at the same time), several medical doctors (but again, 
>> this isn’t a stakeholder group---these folks may instead be categorized as a 
>> journal editor or university official), and representatives from 28 
>> countries in all regions of the world. Most of our current and former OSIers 
>> are from the US and Europe, but broadening our international representation 
>> is something we’ve been working on for a while.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> In the common ground report you’ll find a table showing the most recent 
>> count of current participants and their stakeholder “designations” (it’s 
>> more detailed than the pie chart from before). This said, as Kathleen has 
>> noted, one shouldn’t read into this that x% of the conversation on the OSI 
>> list comes from library officials, or y% from commercial publishers. I would 
>> say that most of the ongoing deliberation on the list is between scholarly 
>> communication analysts and library leaders who really live and breathe these 
>> issues on a daily basis.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Stakeholder group
>> 
>> Number of participants (Dec 2019)
>> 
>> Percent of OSI group
>> 
>> Research universities
>> 
>> 56
>> 
>> 14%
>> 
>> Libraries & library groups
>> 
>> 51
>> 
>> 13%
>> 
>> Commercial publishers
>> 
>> 39
>> 
>> 10%
>> 
>> Open groups and publishers
>> 
>> 37
>> 
>> 9%
>> 
>> Industry analysts
>> 
>> 36
>> 
>> 9%
>> 
>> Government policy groups
>> 
>> 35
>> 
>> 9%
>> 
>> Non-university research institutions
>> 
>> 21
>> 
>> 5%
>> 
>> Scholcomm experts
>> 
>> 20
>> 
>> 5%
>> 
>> Scholarly societies
>> 
>> 19
>> 
>> 5%
>> 
>> Faculty groups
>> 
>> 16
>> 
>> 4%
>> 
>> University publishers
>> 
>> 16
>> 
>> 4%
>> 
>> Funders
>> 
>> 14
>> 
>> 4%
>> 
>> Active researchers
>> 
>> 9
>> 
>> 2%
>> 
>> Editors
>> 
>> 8
>> 
>> 2%
>> 
>> Journalists
>> 
>> 6
>> 
>> 2%
>> 
>> Tech industry
>> 
>> 5
>> 
>> 1%
>> 
>> Infrastructure groups
>> 
>> 3
>> 
>> 1%
>> 
>> Other universities
>> 
>> 2
>> 
>> 1%
>> 
>> Elected officials
>> 
>> 1
>> 
>> 0%
>> 
>> TOTAL
>> 
>> 394
>> 
>> 100%
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I hope this helps.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Glenn
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Glenn Hampson
>> Executive Director
>> Science Communication Institute (SCI)
>> Program Director
>> Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)
>> 
>> <image003.jpg>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Peter Murray-Rust <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:23 AM
>> To: Glenn Hampson <[email protected]>
>> Cc: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) <[email protected]>; Samuel 
>> Moore <[email protected]>; The Open Scholarship Initiative 
>> <[email protected]>; scholcomm <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly 
>> Communications: A Call for Action
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks for outlining this. There are 300-400 people on the OSI list. I could 
>> not find:
>> * any researchers
>> * any doctors/medics
>> * anyone from the Global South
>> 
>> But there are 9 directors from Elsevier.
>> And everyone else is director of this, chief of that, CEO of the other.
>> 
>> In the early days of OA in UK The 
>> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-open-up-publicly-funded-research
>>  Finch Report invited the closed access publishers to help reform 
>> publishing. For many of us this was a a complete betrayal of the radicalism 
>> required. No wonder there has been to progress. That articles are priced at 
>> 3500 Euro. That 80% of the social distancing literature is behind a paywall. 
>> This mega committee is a repeat. It cannot reform. It will legitimise the 
>> next digital landgrab by the vested interests. 
>> There are publishers who create documents (Read Cube) that are specifically 
>> designed to make it impossible to re-use knowledge. And no one except a few 
>> of us care. 
>> m. 
>> 
>> The business model of megapublishers is to make it as hard as possible to 
>> read science. And then collect rent. In software the world works towards 
>> interoperable solutions ; in "publishing"  we have 100+ competing groups who 
>> try as hard as possible to make universal knowledge available.
>> 
>> In the coronavirus pandemic we need global knowledge. The person who does 
>> this without publisher control will be sued and possibly jailed. The only 
>> person who has liberated science will be jailed if she sets foot in USA.
>> 
>> This is not fantasy. I have seen graduate students careers destroyed by 
>> publishers, with no support from their institutions. I myself have had 
>> pushback for text and data mining; I have had no practical support from 
>> anyone in the Academic system. Although they got the law changed to allow 
>> TDM, no Universities in UK dare do anything the publishers might frown on.
>> 
>> I've been on and seen initiative after initiative. I've launched one (Panton 
>> Principles) - it probably actually made some difference to protect data 
>> before the publishers thought of grabbing it. But most inituiatives achieve 
>> nothing. And if they are stuffed with publishers all they do is increase the 
>> prices they charge for OA (like DEAL, PlanS and the rest). OA is just a way 
>> of milking the taxpayer.
>> 
>> The only thing that will change this is building a better system with a 
>> fresh start, almost certainly with young radical people. And Coronavirus 
>> might just do that when citizens realize how badly they've been robbed.
>> 
>> P.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> "I always retain copyright in my papers, and nothing in any contract I sign 
>> with any publisher will override that fact. You should do the same".
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Peter Murray-Rust
>> Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics
>> Unilever Centre, Dept. Of Chemistry
>> University of Cambridge
>> CB2 1EW, UK
>> +44-1223-763069
>> 
>> -- 
>> As a public and publicly-funded effort, the conversations on this list can 
>> be viewed by the public and are archived. To read this group's complete 
>> listserv policy (including disclaimer and reuse information), please visit 
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