I dislike metaphors in reasoning but in the travel case the publishers are more like the official who approves your visa to enter their country, for a fee. The idea that one can restructure an industry without consulting the leading producers strikes me as unlikely to work. It is a coup and they are notable limited in success.
David > On Apr 21, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Heather Piwowar <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I believe the ones who "really live and breathe these issues on a daily > basis" are actually the researchers and public and policy makers who can't > get access to research they need to improve society. > > They, and many others who share their views (myself included), don't > participate in the OSI discussions because they just plain start from the > wrong place. The "needs" of publishers shouldn't matter any more than the > "needs" of travel agents mattered, I believe. > > Some of us are listed in the OSI website because we dipped our toe in before > realizing that it wasn't a group where our time was best spent. > > Heather > > --- > Heather Piwowar, cofounder > Our Research: We build tools to make scholarly research more open, connected, > and reusable—for everyone. > follow at @researchremix, @our_research, and @unpaywall > > >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:09 AM Glenn Hampson >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> >> >> >> Sorry. The web list can be hard to parse because it’s alphabetical by first >> name and not sortable by stakeholder group, plus it hasn’t been updated in a >> while. But there are actually around a dozen active researchers in OSI >> (actually more---that’s just their “primary” designation for “accounting” >> purposes but they can also be a the head of a research organization and an >> active researcher at the same time), several medical doctors (but again, >> this isn’t a stakeholder group---these folks may instead be categorized as a >> journal editor or university official), and representatives from 28 >> countries in all regions of the world. Most of our current and former OSIers >> are from the US and Europe, but broadening our international representation >> is something we’ve been working on for a while. >> >> >> >> In the common ground report you’ll find a table showing the most recent >> count of current participants and their stakeholder “designations” (it’s >> more detailed than the pie chart from before). This said, as Kathleen has >> noted, one shouldn’t read into this that x% of the conversation on the OSI >> list comes from library officials, or y% from commercial publishers. I would >> say that most of the ongoing deliberation on the list is between scholarly >> communication analysts and library leaders who really live and breathe these >> issues on a daily basis. >> >> >> >> Stakeholder group >> >> Number of participants (Dec 2019) >> >> Percent of OSI group >> >> Research universities >> >> 56 >> >> 14% >> >> Libraries & library groups >> >> 51 >> >> 13% >> >> Commercial publishers >> >> 39 >> >> 10% >> >> Open groups and publishers >> >> 37 >> >> 9% >> >> Industry analysts >> >> 36 >> >> 9% >> >> Government policy groups >> >> 35 >> >> 9% >> >> Non-university research institutions >> >> 21 >> >> 5% >> >> Scholcomm experts >> >> 20 >> >> 5% >> >> Scholarly societies >> >> 19 >> >> 5% >> >> Faculty groups >> >> 16 >> >> 4% >> >> University publishers >> >> 16 >> >> 4% >> >> Funders >> >> 14 >> >> 4% >> >> Active researchers >> >> 9 >> >> 2% >> >> Editors >> >> 8 >> >> 2% >> >> Journalists >> >> 6 >> >> 2% >> >> Tech industry >> >> 5 >> >> 1% >> >> Infrastructure groups >> >> 3 >> >> 1% >> >> Other universities >> >> 2 >> >> 1% >> >> Elected officials >> >> 1 >> >> 0% >> >> TOTAL >> >> 394 >> >> 100% >> >> >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> Glenn >> >> >> >> >> >> Glenn Hampson >> Executive Director >> Science Communication Institute (SCI) >> Program Director >> Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI) >> >> <image003.jpg> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Peter Murray-Rust <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:23 AM >> To: Glenn Hampson <[email protected]> >> Cc: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) <[email protected]>; Samuel >> Moore <[email protected]>; The Open Scholarship Initiative >> <[email protected]>; scholcomm <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [GOAL] [SCHOLCOMM] Fostering Bibliodiversity in Scholarly >> Communications: A Call for Action >> >> >> >> Thanks for outlining this. There are 300-400 people on the OSI list. I could >> not find: >> * any researchers >> * any doctors/medics >> * anyone from the Global South >> >> But there are 9 directors from Elsevier. >> And everyone else is director of this, chief of that, CEO of the other. >> >> In the early days of OA in UK The >> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-open-up-publicly-funded-research >> Finch Report invited the closed access publishers to help reform >> publishing. For many of us this was a a complete betrayal of the radicalism >> required. No wonder there has been to progress. That articles are priced at >> 3500 Euro. That 80% of the social distancing literature is behind a paywall. >> This mega committee is a repeat. It cannot reform. It will legitimise the >> next digital landgrab by the vested interests. >> There are publishers who create documents (Read Cube) that are specifically >> designed to make it impossible to re-use knowledge. And no one except a few >> of us care. >> m. >> >> The business model of megapublishers is to make it as hard as possible to >> read science. And then collect rent. In software the world works towards >> interoperable solutions ; in "publishing" we have 100+ competing groups who >> try as hard as possible to make universal knowledge available. >> >> In the coronavirus pandemic we need global knowledge. The person who does >> this without publisher control will be sued and possibly jailed. The only >> person who has liberated science will be jailed if she sets foot in USA. >> >> This is not fantasy. I have seen graduate students careers destroyed by >> publishers, with no support from their institutions. I myself have had >> pushback for text and data mining; I have had no practical support from >> anyone in the Academic system. Although they got the law changed to allow >> TDM, no Universities in UK dare do anything the publishers might frown on. >> >> I've been on and seen initiative after initiative. I've launched one (Panton >> Principles) - it probably actually made some difference to protect data >> before the publishers thought of grabbing it. But most inituiatives achieve >> nothing. And if they are stuffed with publishers all they do is increase the >> prices they charge for OA (like DEAL, PlanS and the rest). OA is just a way >> of milking the taxpayer. >> >> The only thing that will change this is building a better system with a >> fresh start, almost certainly with young radical people. And Coronavirus >> might just do that when citizens realize how badly they've been robbed. >> >> P. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> "I always retain copyright in my papers, and nothing in any contract I sign >> with any publisher will override that fact. You should do the same". >> >> >> >> Peter Murray-Rust >> Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics >> Unilever Centre, Dept. Of Chemistry >> University of Cambridge >> CB2 1EW, UK >> +44-1223-763069 >> >> -- >> As a public and publicly-funded effort, the conversations on this list can >> be viewed by the public and are archived. To read this group's complete >> listserv policy (including disclaimer and reuse information), please visit >> http://osinitiative.org/osi-listservs. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Open Scholarship Initiative" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/osi2016-25/006001d617ff%248b0e0720%24a12a1560%24%40nationalscience.org.
_______________________________________________ GOAL mailing list [email protected] http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
