Frank, can you point us to your sources of Google's 'myopic viewpoint' and these policies that you speak of? You mention in an earlier email "While almost every email service (e.g., Mozilla Thunderbird with IMAP settings) provides such an option, Gmail apparently does not -- despite years of everyone's pleas.". Mozilla Thunderbird is a mail client, not a service. I am not aware of any other email service that offers an auto-Bcc feature. I also do not know of any other email client other than Apple Mail that has this feature. It can be done in Outlook yes, but with rules. Please let us know which email services you a referring to. I am also unable to find the years of everyone's pleas for this feature. Surely with +26 million Gmail users I would find more. What I did find was that it can be done with an extension (but only on your browser on your computer ie. not mobile) eg: http://www.webernetting.com/auto-bcc-gmail/ Yo also say "*You don't want to have to search your "sent" folder for a copy of your own email sent to others". *How is this more effort than searching a different Inbox for emails that you have sent? At least your 'Sent Mail' folder will only contain mail that you actually sent. If you are looking at copies of your sent emails, along with other received email in another Inbox, then how is this different to conversation view?
You needing to verify that email has left your ISP is certainly not a problem of Google's. I don't know why you need to verify this, your ISP's SMTP system will send you a DSN (Delivery Status Notification) if there is a problem. Even when you do receive your own message copy, it certainly does not mean that the intended recipient has also received it. Again, the SMTP server will send you a DSN if it fails. Receiving a copy of your message does not let you see how it will be displayed to the recipient unless you are reading it in exactly the same way they are ie. mail client, screen resolution, font size etc. We know that there are Google employees on this list as they have responded to emails from time to time. On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Frank St. Claire <[email protected]>wrote: > Actually, I think Geoff's post, together with your reply, does help > articulate the problem some of us are having. > > I use Thunderbird with its auto-bcc option whenever I am at home. When I > am on a mobile device, such as an iPad or iPhone, Thunderbird is not an > option. When I am constrained to only a mobile device is the only time that > I resort to using Gmail to send messages or replies, which does require me > to remember to manually include a bcc to myself if I want to emulate the > automatic process of Thunderbird (BTW, I do use the IMAP configuration, > which is probably why I use Gmail at all). Indeed, this reply to the group > is being sent by Thunderbird for that very reason. > > Additionally, I send from my ISP a bcc not only to my Gmail account from > which it is sent, but also to a non-Gmail account that is not owith my ISP > provider so that I can receive verification not only that my e-mail left my > ISP but also was received by an independent unrelated ISP and also see how > it is displayed to the recipient. > > Perhaps that is overkill (with redundant copies) from Google's apparent > myopic viewpoint, but for me, it is SOP and a practice I do not wish to > have to forego by depending only on web-based Gmail as a method of > communication. > > I hope this clarifies in some respect the problem that both Geoff and I > (and the untold-numbers who have preceded us over the years in this group > and have otherwise attempted to get a straight answer from Google) are > talking about. As I said before, I am very doubtful that Google will be > responsive to addressing this problem since I'm sure many others have > called it to their attention, not only in this group, but to the Google > team directly. > > Thank you in advance for any constructive solution that you might suggest. > As you have stated, I understand you are only a fellow user, with no > affiliation to Google either as an employee or contractor, direct or > indirect. > > Finally, in my wildest dreams, I cannot imagine that the "Google team" > does not have at least one employee, whose job is to monitor groups such as > this. I do hope whoever that person is he or she is not posting here > without identifying his or herself as a Gmail related employee or > contractor in defending Google's unaddressed policy on this issue ( or > "problem" for some of us). > > Have a great Memorial Day weekend -- and don't forget to bcc yourself on > any reply if you send it from web-based Gmail! <g> > > > > On 5/25/2013 11:02 AM, Zack (Doc) wrote: > > OK, but now you've added to the confusion. > > #1, depending on how you set up your Thunderbird, it's not actually > placing a copy in Sent, but is in fact pulling that folder over IMAP; > meaning the GMail servers do indeed have a copy, so it went outward. In > fact, if you followed the GMail Help page on setting up Thunderbird, that's > exactly the way it's set up. They advise against the direct copy because > then you'll have duplicates. > > #2, Thunderbird has an auto-bcc option, so why would you need GMail to > do it? > > > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Geoff Briggs < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Sorry for any confusion; perhaps I can explain! >> >> Perhaps I needed to say that I am not using the web browser to read and >> write emails: they are currently going through Thunderbird on my work PC, >> as this way I can have one program open with all my various emails in it; >> whether they come from my work account or my various home accounts. I am >> contacting Gmail via IMAP, and so 'Inbox' forms a separate folder and so >> doesn't thread messages from 'sent'. The same happens if I label messages >> as they appear in my 'inbox', effectively copying them to specific folders. >> I guess I could just look at the 'all' folder at all times, but I prefer to >> separate current active messages from those which have been dealt with and >> archived. I would have exactly the same situation if I used Outlook or any >> other IMAP based method of contacting my Gmail. >> >> This also explains my second point: all emails have to go through the >> work SMTP server: any other routes for sending out emails from Thunderbird >> (or Outlook, etc) are blocked (apart from opening a web browser and using >> the web version of Gmail). When I write a message from my Gmail account on >> my machine, it places a copy in 'Sent'. This is a simple copying procedure, >> and so doesn't involve the SMTP servers at all. To be certain that a >> message has actually got through my work SMTP queue, I need it to go into >> the ether, arrive at the Gmail servers, and then download it via IMAP. >> >> Does this make things clearer? >> >> >> On Friday, 24 May 2013 06:28:15 UTC+1, Zack Tennant wrote: >> >>> Geoff, >>> >>> Your messages confuses me more than most in this thread. If you have >>> conversation view on (the default), then the messages are threaded >>> together, including your replies. They are not split. I'm looking at this >>> thread that way right now. When I hit send, the message that I'm typing >>> now will be at the bottom of my conversation view. >>> >>> And as a network engineer, I regret to inform you that #2 is not >>> happening. All you're telling yourself that way is that it made it to YOUR >>> server. The sent message present in GMail by default tells you the same >>> thing. You're not actually gaining any information with a BCC. >>> >>> Finally, yes, when GMail detects what it considered a duplicate of a >>> message that it has already, it will delete it automatically. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Geoff Briggs < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Several people seem to have a big problem with *why* anyone would want >>>> to BCC themselves and have the BCCed messgae stored in their 'inbox' rather >>>> than in their 'sent' folder. These are the two reasons why *I* want to be >>>> able to do this. >>>> >>>> 1. I would like my replies to messages to be part of the conversation >>>> thread: I want to be able to look at a threaded message and not only see >>>> whether I sent a reply, but also see what I said. If the messages are split >>>> between 2 different folders (labels) then the messages are combined in a >>>> single thread. >>>> >>>> 2. I want to be certain that my messages have actually got out 'into >>>> the ether'. When at work, I have to send messages through my work smtp >>>> server, and the only way I know that any email I have sent has actually >>>> left the local work network is if I BCC myself. If a message returns to me >>>> through BCC, then I know it has also been delivered to the main recipient's >>>> system (even if not to the recipients mailbox). Having a copy of my message >>>> simply copied to 'sent' does not prove the message has been successfully >>>> sent. >>>> >>>> As it is, I find that many of my BCCed messages to myself actually end >>>> up in 'Bin', presumably because Gmail realise it's a duplicate (with the >>>> copy in 'sent' and so deletes the additional one! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, 23 May 2013 03:16:06 UTC+1, Frank St. Claire wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Every reply (most of which seem to come from "Zac") dance around the >>>>> problem, which is pretty simple: >>>>> >>>>> *1. You want to have a copy of each email you send sent to yourself >>>>> as if you had manually listed yourself as a bcc recipient -- which is gets >>>>> very old to do manually after you've done it for awhile.* >>>>> 2. While almost every email service (e.g., Mozilla Thunderbird with >>>>> IMAP settings) provides such an option, Gmail apparently does not -- >>>>> despite years of everyone's pleas. >>>>> 3. *You don't want to use conversation mode* -- which some find >>>>> distracting AND >>>>> 4. *You don't want to have to search your "sent" folder for a copy of >>>>> your own email sent to others* (see item 1 above). >>>>> >>>>> and for clarification, this question is NOT: >>>>> >>>>> 1. related to CRM (I don't care whatever that is and don't want to >>>>> know) or >>>>> 2. a philosophical issue. >>>>> >>>>> and finally: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Does Google listen to their users or has it turned a deaf ear to a >>>>> legitimate multi-year request? >>>>> 2. BTW, we accepted Google's limitation of two levels of "nesting" of >>>>> mail folders with its multiple "labels" -- which is probably due to a >>>>> limit >>>>> in Gmail's design architecture, but >>>>> 3. If this current issue (i.e., *see item 1 in the first paragraph*if you >>>>> forgot to read it there or didn't fully comprehend the simple scope >>>>> of this query) is a design issue here, either: >>>>> a. fix it or >>>>> b. "cowboy-up" to the problem -- instead of using what appear to >>>>> be stalking horse apologists in this user group to qualm the incessantly >>>>> beating drums of discontent from some of your most ardent supporters over >>>>> this simple question. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance to anyone who has the courage and intelligence to >>>>> address this issue directly as presented above (i.e., *see item 1 in >>>>> the first paragraph* above if you have not done so by now) without >>>>> any of the tangential responses evidenced by this multi-year thread to >>>>> date. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Gmail-Users" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gmail-users?hl=en. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Gmail-Users" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gmail-users?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Gmail-Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/gmail-users/b3ZUBn6Q5Xk/unsubscribe?hl=en > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gmail-users?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Gmail-Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gmail-users?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Marko -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Gmail-Users" group. 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