(CC-ing comrel@) On pon, 2017-04-10 at 13:49 -0400, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > and Python support in Gentoo (which I use) a mess long-term. What is > > even worse, you do that without even talking to the Python team, or > > even bothering to CC them -- what you do instead is start a public > > discussion about Python without even bothering to invite Python > > people to it. > > This discussion is about more than python. You are ONE member of the > team, with at least 17 others. You are also NOT the Python Team lead.
I don't see how attempting to discredit me is a fact regarding your idea. > > Who do you think you are, to approach me or ANYONE such way? You are > one person. The word team does not mean I, MGORNY.... Personal attack. Does not seem very factual. > > Now to step back. The post here is to engage in discussion with said > teams. But rather than address Python directly, and Ruby directly. I > chose to come here to address BOTH. The problem is not unique to one or > the other. > > What if Ruby team had ideas that could benefit Python? Would they know > if the interaction is happening just with the Python team? Think, how > do you reach more than one Gentoo team? What if an idea effects more > than one? > > I chose the right list, and the correct method. Even if it does not > suit some individuals opinions. Or their preferred way of dictating how > others conduct themselves. Except that the constant low level of posts on this list has resulted in most of the developers avoiding it. If you cared about opinion of the teams, you should have CC-ed them. > > > FYI, if you want to change something, the first research you ought to > > do is to ask 'why is it done this way?' Not jump to some random > > points that might be completely irrelevant. > > I understand, and I believe there are better ways. If you are not > capable of coming up with any better ways. That is your own personal > limitation. > > Again to add/remove a new python/ruby version requires touching every > python/ruby ebuild. You think that is efficient or the best way? Are > you, mgorny, adding/removing these python/ruby targets to lots of > ebuilds? This is the best *working* way. I don't see you being able to figure out a way that wouldn't randomly result in huge semi-random breakages of dependency tree (as others have already pointed out), and that wouldn't in the end require even more effort to fix them and keep people able to upgrade anything without hitting huge conflicts. > > I do not see any of that here. Guess you leave that work to others > https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/commits?author=mgorny > > Not to mention your 2,033 commits, across the life of Gentoo Git repo. > With some 1600+ python packages. Just modifying the COMPAT would > increase your commit count considerable. I believe you are not doing > this work, leaving it to others. > > You can prove me wrong with commits. Should be close to at least 100 > commits. If you are doing serious python work. Once again, you are focusing on attempting to discredit me by throwing some random useless stats. This is how factual you are. > > > Well, I've opened the first ebuild in your overlay [1] and it wouldn't > > pass basic code review. > > Your review. Which your review of Firebird introduced REQUIRED USE > flags that did not work and broke the package. Despite the issue being > addressed a 1 line fix. You wanted the entire ebuild revised and > introduced a much larger issue that did not exist in the first place. Again, you're attempting to discredit me, through some semi-relevant oversimplification of history. And I'm afraid all that is proven by this example is that your ebuild skills are seriously lacking and you refuse to learn, and just rage quit. > > I use repoman on my overlay. If something does not meet QA. Then go > modify repoman to point such out. If repoman is not pointing it out, > then is it really an issue? Not every single issue can be caught correctly by an automated system. That's why we still employ people rather than leaving everything to be done by machines with simple algorithms. > > Maybe just in mgorny's mind.... This is a clear personal attack, not a fact. > > > For a start, it doesn't enforce USE > > dependencies which are absolutely necessary for anything to work by > > omething else than mere accident. It also explains why you are able > > to claim that your solution works. > > I have not implemented what I am suggestion. I fail to see how you can > say something not implemented fails to work. What is your case study? > Have you re-wrote python eclasses to no use TARGETS? My point is that if you do not know how to write correct Python ebuilds, you do not have a correct test case to even start planning out your idea. > > > [1]:https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/os-xtoo/blob/master/dev-pytho > > n/python-efl/python-efl-9999.ebuild > > That is new, and FYI mostly a copy form what is in TREE... Go diff and > see for yourself. What ever issues I expect YOU mgorny to go fix in > tree. Otherwise be quiet. > https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/tree/master/dev-libs/efl This is irrelevant + once again, a personal attack. If you don't want me to judge your Python skills by the ebuilds you have in the overlay, then why are you using the overlay to prove them in the first place? > > It also breaks due to upstream changes, it requires EFL 1.18, and > breaks with 1.19. EFL likely needs to be slotted but that is another > matter. > > > > I think I have a clue when it comes to package maintenance. I was > > > doing it as a Developer back in 2006 thru 2008... > > > https://github.com/wltjr?tab=overview&from=2006-12-01&to=2006-12-31 > > > > I'm sorry but 10 years ago is not very relevant to Gentoo today. > > Funny, given stuff 10years ago is still in tree... > https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/tree/master/dev-java/servletapi > > I was working on removing that in 2007.... > > Repomans commit message is more than 10yrs old. Considerable stuff in > gentoo has been around for some time. Things have been added but hardly > changed, equery, euse, emerge, eselect, etc... > > Any EAPI=0 ebuilds around? Guess how old those are? Or others... > > > The funny part is that you can write walls of text on yourself and > > your ideas but find it impossible to put the most important question: > > *why is it done like this?* > > Likely cause of people like you, who cannot come up with a better way. > What are your ideas to improve things? Any? Or the status quo is utopia? > > All I see is negativity. Not a single technical argument why it > technically would not be feasible. Nothing to suggest an alternative > way. Absolutely nothing constructive. > Finally, since you seem to be completely resistant to do at least some basic research, and you keep trying to prove that I'm some developer who is barely doing anything, lemme tell you a funny thing: I wrote these eclasses, I designed this model and I was responsible for switching it from opt-out to opt-in. But then, all that work was obviously non-constructive, unlike reviving the topic on the mailing list without doing any research or simply asking the person who did it. -- Best regards, Michał Górny
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