-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/05/12 09:54, Olivier Crête wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, 2012-05-10 at 06:34 +0200, Fabio Erculiani wrote: >> I think expressing my own opinion about Lennart-made software is my >> right, after all. > > I would express my opinion about Fabio made software, but I've never > heard of any.
Not his fault, he wrote plenty of interesting stuff though. Fabio attitude still isn't that horrible regarding feedbacks, Rigo got created more or less because the previous UI got a sound "it sucks". His quite short and a bit extreme reaction probably is due having lots of unhappy user complaining at him for some issue with avahi (hangs in bonjour now and then) and pulse (skype freezing randomly anyone). >> Firstly, it's almost impossible nowadays to avoid including avahi, >> systemd and pulseaudio into a desktop distro so, there is no real >> choice. This issue became a sensible matter for those users who for >> instance, wanted to have a silly mp3 player working without going >> through the PA nonsense, really missing the old >> ALSA-oh-it-was-always-working days. > > Maybe the reason every sensible distribution uses Avahi, Pulseaudio, etc > is because they are better than other solutions out there? If there are solutions somebody will use them, if people are aware of them and doesn't get too hard. I did like the concept about pulse and even wrote support for pulse in a certain fringe software you might use. The pulse concept is quite good, some corner cases and some design issues make it annoying at time. The fact some of them are consider "features" or "design" obviously make the whole thing less nice. > Do you think is a fast conspiracy to make your life suck? I believe > engineers in every distribution are looking at what's available and > picking what they think is the best solution, and it turns out Lennart > is pretty damn good at making useful software. No, he is pretty damn good in getting interesting concepts, having people sold on them and then you need 5 years to have the audio seldom crash, bonjour seldom kill pidgin and so on. Till it is some minor annoyance that is comparable to not having the feature or the same to other feature provider (dmix isn't exactly great as well) you surely can live with it. > Was alsa always working? I remember spending hours trying to figure out > the right control in alsamixer and fighting with alsa's arcane > configuration languages (it has 3 different ones). And how do you deal > with modern technologies like Bluetooth audio without Pulseaudio > exactly? I used to do that and it was working sort of fine even if it was crashing in dbus... >> Of course, I am not only bringing my personal opinion here, but the >> one of the majority of users I've been talking with. > > I think you only hear from users who like to complain, others are just > happy that everything works for them thanks to Pulseaudio, systemd, etc. As said, if they are minor annoyances most people would just cope with them. A - "Skype hangs because pulse? oh well, let's reload it no biggie" B - "AAaargh I missed the important confcall because #%$#@ skype hang due pulse, I hate YOU Lennart!" A and B are different reactions from the same small issue. > If you think that Lennart does not solve problems, maybe it's because > you don't even understand what the problems were? For example, I > encourage you to read about how the dynamic latency in PA allows for > lower power usage or how modern audio hardware is designed to use a > userspace sound server, etc. I recall when the whole thing got initially reported and it was "pulse eats my batter" and if you consider that the stock pulse on ubuntu oneric eats about a *least* 10% cpu on imx51 due funny resampling loops you know something needed some more attention. I guess I'm digressing. The main issue is that udev best replacement so far is mdev plus some additional helpers to let applications using libudev or the dbus interface still get compatibility. So having udev merge with systemd is quite in the shovel meet throat side. People that had and have some bad experience with pulse and avahi or directly with Lennart stubborn and abrasive personality can be *quite* concerned about this "vertical" and linux-only approach. If you consider that in 2 weeks the whole thing went from "udev moves to systemd since is easier for us, but not be concerned udev can build stand alone" to "udev stand alone is unsupported" you can see that isn't that simple and lots of people might start to get angry. lu - -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk+xU3sACgkQ6Ex4woTpDjTNewCfU5cahmNPbgKQJt/2GkbVBh4o F1gAnjheSaIVRF55g1//9wu5dFe8ga3w =FlU7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
