Thanks hparker for letting me know about this part of the thread and a
call for opinions from ATs.
Sven Vermeulen wrote:
The GLEP was originally created to help the architecture testers with a
specific privilege: read-only CVS access. This would allow them to improve
the quality of the ebuilds sooner, help the architecture teams identify
working (and perhaps even more important, not-working) tools and perform
tests on the global system to make sure the distribution is in top-notch
shape.
And this is certainly still the most important part of the whole thing.
The e-mail address was not that important, but was decided to bring it in
"the package" because it would be some sort of appreciation to those users.
Until recently I may have agreed with that sentiment, but honestly I can
now see several ways that the email address would help to cut down
confusion and make the whole operation less of a PITA.
1. The identification of ATs in b.g.o by an @g.o address allows devs
and other ATs to quickly identify who is and is not a 'trusted' source
of information. This may not seem challenging now, but as the number of
ATs increases I fear it will become so. We currently have 20 active ATs
with amd64 and I know there's at least one more in the pipe right now --
it gets hard to remember everyone.
2. As (I would like to think) part of our responsibility is to answer
questions on the IRC channels, as is the case with the devs, it makes it
easier from a user standpoint to contact one of us by email working on
the assumption that our address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] as opposed to everyone
asking for the information over and over again.
One general idea was that arch testers wouldn't be developers because they
have no formal obligation to the Gentoo project: we don't expect them to put
in x hours a week in Gentoo, read the gentoo-core and -dev mailinglists or
even catch up with most of the events that happen in Gentoo (like GLEPs and
such). This is also a request from the arch testers, because many of them
*can't* devote much time to Gentoo anyway.
Very true.
That sentiment is reflected in using a subdomain address, and from what we
heard no tester had any problems with this (the e-mail addy is far less
important than the rest of the GLEP).
(Admittedly, I joined the ranks of the ATs after the inital GLEP and
council meeting)
I have a problem with the subdomain -- actually a few. Most of my
issues here are the same as have been presented earlier in the thread
dealing mainly with the extensibility of the whole thing. As kurt
pointed out, what happens when someone occupies multiple roles? Do we
just provide every email address and alias ourselves like crazy?
For those ATs that are going to become devs, it seems especially foolish
as we would be given one address, which will be used all over b.g.o,
only to have to switch to another one within a period of a couple of
months thereby building up a cruft of aliases which will have to
realistically remain as long as we stay with the organization. I mean,
it's obviously not my job to maintain that, but it doesn't seem very
forward-thinking.
Also, when I'm not doing my research for school or working on Gentoo
stuff I work for a great company in Canada called Canadian Tire. If I
want to email someone in the mailroom at our head office, I send an
email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]; but here's the kicker, if I want to email the
CEO, I send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
But wait you say! Canadian Tire is a corporation and people are paid to
work directly for the company and therefore everyones' email should be
@cantire.com. Well, what about the United Way - one of the biggest
volunteer organizations in the world (and one I spent many years with).
Turns out that you can reach anyone there at [EMAIL PROTECTED],
manager or secretary or Jo Blo community representative alike.
My point here being that I have a problem with designs that set an
overlord/underling pattern in place. I feel that it represents the
organization as a whole badly. Somehow I had this belief that if we all
do work directly for gentoo, then why wouldn't we just be [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One (important) part of the GLEP is the request that the arch tester has
passed the Staff Quiz and that a probation period should be passed before
read-only CVS access is given. I'm personally wondering how close this comes
to becoming a real developer (which, iirc, is something the trustees should
be called upon as the Foundation should keep track of "what" defines a
"Gentoo Developer", as developers have voting rights on the Foundation
board). As I said before, the arch testers themselves aren't asking for
being a developer but rather for additional tools to help them do their
work.
I've said it in the first meeting and I'll reiterate: what is the sentiment
of the arch testers in this case (if they are still reading this thread)?
No matter what comes of all this (we do or do not get ro cvs, same for
emails) I'm going to continue to do my work. I mean, my motivation for
joining the organization in the first place has not changed -- I want to
give back to gentoo because I have enjoyed using it all these years and
it is only through the RSI of the volunteers that it continues to get
better and better all the time.
That said, the ro cvs is but a tool to help in our work, and I'm a big
fan of tools to make jobs faster and easier. Email addresses are both a
tool and a point of recognition and in accordance have a two-fold benefit.
Wkr,
Sven Vermeulen
PS I would be quite surprised if there is *one* arch tester who feels good
with this entire thread; it doesn't show of much appreciation between
people. There is a huge difference between saying that a group has "made
an unfortunate decision" or "did not grasp the essence of the proposal
and situation needed to make a good decision", and "abuse of powers".
Well, it has certainly shown me a darker side of the inside of Gentoo.
Plus, it's not all that comforting when people debate about your
existence. I worked about 10 hours this week on Gentoo stuff (it's all
the time I could afford); not stuff for me -- I couldn't personally care
at all if xcb or rman work on amd64 as they're applications that I don't
have a particular use for, but I'm more than happy to put in the time to
improve our arch support ... because it's. my. job. Then to be told
that few people actually want to recognize that work is a little
disheartening.
Scott Stoddard
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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