Kevin, thanks for the heads up and for the support. I'd love for those companies to contribute but I think there's no need to wait for them, no?
I understand that a meeting can be useful but if you have one it'd be great if it could be an online meetup/call so I (from Germany) can also participate. That said: I believe we can probably hash out most details on the list as well? Cheers, Lars On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 7:41 PM Kevin A. McGrail <kmcgr...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Lars, > > Just a note that this might tie in nicely to the proposal I sent to a > number of online companies: Coursera, Pluralsight, Udemy, & Udacity re: > setting up a PMC for Training. I got only one response which so far > hasn't materialized with much. However, I think the idea has a lot of > merit and thought I would share what I wrote back in October. > > Regards, > KAM > > Invitation to a Discussion Panel re: the Apache Way and a PMC Proposal > for Online Training > > Kevin A. McGrail <kmcgr...@apache.org> > Tue, Oct 16, 12:46 PM > > Hello All, > > Over the past few years, the ASF has been approached a number of times > regarding online training/certification and working with several players > in the industry. To date, we haven't had much luck finding a way that > works but just recently, we had another firm reach out to us. > > With this additional firm and combining it with recent ASF discussions > about "central service" projects at the ASF to embrace things that are > non-code related like graphics and documentation, we might have a way > forward. > > In broad strokes, the idea of creating training material presents itself > as an interesting idea for a project in the Apache Incubator. The > Incubator is where we grow and cultivate interesting ideas towards being > top level projects. > > The plan at this stage is to get interested parties to discuss the > idea. What is needed is for a team of people to create a proposal for a > project management committee to produce this training material just like > how we produce OSS software in a vendor neutral, collaborative manner > using the Apache Way. > > It's important to note that the ASF wouldn't drive this ship. We'd help > steer it with tugboats but we have a lot of experience with successful > projects involving lots of different vendors that create value through > open source. > > If the companies you represent might be able to help in doing that, I'd > like to see if it's feasible and guide you. The first step is to setup > a meeting with interested parties to discuss things further. Please let > me know if you would be interested and if you recommend anyone else is > invited for the meeting. > > Thanks for your time. > > Regards, > > KAM > On 12/17/2018 8:22 AM, Lars Francke wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'd like to start a discussion around establishing a project (or Central > > Service) at the ASF to host and develop training and related materials > for > > ASF (and possibly others, where it makes sense) projects. > > > > I'm a committer and contributor to a few projects and make money doing > > consulting work. Naturally people do contact us for training, and we have > > developed our own slideware etc. but we find it incredibly hard work to > > keep those up-to-date. > > > > We also work with lots of other companies and they all face the same > > challenges. At the same time, we do not believe that a slide-deck is > worth > > that much on its own (others disagree, as we used to). We believe the > > instructor is the real selling-point and especially when that person is > > deeply embedded in the projects itself as a committer or PMC. > > > > So, we as a company[0] would like to donate our slide decks and other > > resources we have and establish an ASF wide training project in the hopes > > that we as a community can collaborate on those resources. We are > currently > > talking to partners to assess whether they are interested in joining us > in > > open sourcing their material. > > > > I'm not sure if this is a "Central Services" kind of thing or if it > should > > be an Incubator project to begin with. I'm posting this here because I > > think there are good arguments for it being a project (e.g. it appears > as a > > “project” in all lists that others can contribute to, it follows a > familiar > > structure etc.). It might be a bit different than other projects though > > (e.g. maybe there are no real releases?). > > > > This is also not limited to just slides obviously but also accompanying > > code and potentially other media forms. > > > > One concern I have is that the material should be as objective as > possible, > > but our clients especially value our (often subjective) input on the > > matureness of tools (third-party as well as ASF), processes and > > communities. So, we usually include that in our slides. I guess anyone > > using this material would need to customize it. > > > > This is how I see it but I'm happy to change based on feedback. > > In scope: > > * Develop shared material that can be used for trainings > > * Develop “labs” or “hands-on” exercises > > * Develop or document an infrastructure that can be used for those labs > > * Potentially develop tools to manage the material (e.g. ideally a slide > > repository that contains “modules” that can be easily reused and > combined) > > > > Out of scope (for now at least) > > * Something like what the CNCF has with their “Kubernetes Training > > Program”[1] with certified training partners > > * Project documentation > > > > I wasn’t sure whether to start this discussion in members@ and/or here > or > > somewhere else entirely. But as we believe it should be a “project” I > think > > this is the best place for it. I’m happy to cross-post if you think it > > worthwhile. > > > > I'm looking forward to any and all feedback you might have on this. I > would > > be happy to draw up a formal Incubator Proposal once we agree on a result > > and shape. > > > > Anticipated FAQs: > > > > Q: Shouldn’t each project take care of its own training? > > A: Yes and no. Ideally a project should be well documented but developing > > material for professional “training” is quite different from writing > > documentation in my experience. I think it's better to have a single > > central project doing this than having this as part of every project > > itself. One reason being that it makes sense to have cross-project > > trainings (e.g. no one is interested in an “Apache Hadoop” training. They > > all want to learn about the ecosystem). > > > > Q: Isn't the ASF all about code, now you want to do PPT! > > A: We’ve had committers for documentation for a long time and I’d > actually > > like to see much more of that in the future. I think it’s not about the > > code but about merit. We have a lot of Apache Way presentations now > (which > > could be part of this project) that go into depth on this one. > > > > Q: We have the Community project[2], should this not be part of that > > project? > > A: I honestly don’t know. There is definitely some overlap or alignment > but > > from all I’ve seen and read I think these could very well be two distinct > > projects but “we” could follow a very similar structure and probably > reuse > > some content and tools. > > > > Q: I don't like PPT/keynote/Apache OpenOffice/HTML slides/... everyone > > should do PechaKucha at all times. > > A: We are not set on any format for the content, finding a suitable > format > > will be part of this project’s mission. To me this is a technical > > discussion like it happens a hundred times a day on the Apache Jira and > > Mailing Lists. There will be disagreement and some people will be > > disappointed by some of the choices made but that’s no different than any > > other project. > > > > Q: How can I integrate slides from this project to match my corporate > > design? I'm not allowed to not use CD. > > A: Another technical question (plus probably one that involves legal@) > to > > which I do not yet have an answer. > > > > Thank you Bernd Fondermann, Sönke Liebau and Tim Robertson for the review > > of this mail. > > > > Cheers, > > Lars > > > > [0] <https://www.opencore.com/> > > [1] <https://www.cncf.io/certification/training/> > > [2] <https://community.apache.org/> > > > > -- > Kevin A. McGrail > VP Fundraising, Apache Software Foundation > Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project > https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171 > >
