On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:40 PM Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 05/20/2016 04:26 AM, John D. Ament wrote: > > Daniel, > > > > I'm a bit curious, what does the proposed plan to gain by going through > > incubation, instead of becoming a TLP directly? > > > > Is it the community diversity aspects, to bring in non-infra team members > > on to the code base? > > I would not feel comfortable bringing a project straight to TLP when a > portion of the initial members of the community have had no experience > whatsoever with the Apache Way before. What is listed is the bare bones > group of people who have worked on Pony Mail in one way or the other (I > should probably add Sam Ruby to that list), there are other peripheral > people who are curious but also have no experience with Apache. > > I would love to use incubation as a way to grow a larger community, > teach the non-hardcore-ASF people how we do things around here, AND also > myself learn some more about what the various processes entail. We don't > really have anyone experienced with releasing code under the ASF banner > (I've never done that myself), and having the Incubator vet our > processes and end results would be a great help. There is - to me- so > much more under the Incubator umbrella that would prove helpful to us > than if we tried to go straight to TLP. > > Furthermore, I feel that incubation is a better (faster?) way to attract > new contributors in the startup phase of a project. There's more of a > "let's get cracking on making something awesome!" feeling about it, in > my view. > > Lastly, there are issues like branding etc which is more easily solved > as a podling. > > I hope this has answered your question. > It does very clearly. If you're looking for more mentors, I'd be happy to help (we recommend 3 mentors for a podling). Granted most of the proposed PPMC qualify as mentors as well. I'd also be interested in helping out, I know quite a bit about elasticsearch, can do some UI, and would be interested in picking up more lua and python. John > > With regards, > Daniel. > > > > > John > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 2:55 PM Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > >> Hi again folks, > >> I would formally like to open up a discussion on the following proposal > >> for the Apache Incubator: > >> > >> Pretty version can be found at: > >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PonyMailProposal > >> > >> > >> text-only version follows: > >> ################################ > >> > >> Abstract > >> > >> Pony Mail is a mail-archiving, archive viewing, and interaction service, > >> that can be integrated with many email platforms. > >> > >> Proposal > >> > >> Background > >> > >> Pony Mail began as a response to two things; the lack of diversity in > >> mailing list archives that are less bureaucratic all-or-nothing and more > >> fluid way to interact with mailing lists than what is typically offered, > >> and the lack of a performant system that solves this issue. Modern users > >> of software want to jump right into a discussion they see, but cannot > >> normally do so in a mailing list driven environment because of the rules > >> generally surrounding said environment. Pony Mail, along with a select > >> handful of newer archive systems, provides an interface that allows > >> people to just hop into a thread, and take part. Without the need to > >> subscribe, download the mbox archive, load it into your MTA, and > >> respond. > >> > >> As Rich writes in a very short essay: > >> > >> You see a thread in which someone is WRONG ON THE INTERNET! You need to > >> correct them. How do you do this today? You kinda don't. If you really > >> wanted, you could download mbox files (and who the hell knows where they > >> are?) and then try to get them into your mail client (which never works) > >> and then reply to it. Which will break threading, because you did > >> something wrong. Then you tear out your hair. PONY MAIL TO THE RESCUE!!! > >> (sound of hoof beats) > >> > >> Rationale > >> > >> One of the oft-heard complaints about Apache's development model is that > >> mailing lists are an old person's tool, and web-based communication - > >> forums - are the way to go in the 21st Century. Providing a > >> full-featured forum-like interface to mailing lists is one goal,while > >> keeping all of the enormous benefits that mailing lists already provide. > >> Asecond goal is to provide the ability to "jump in" to a mailing list > >> conversation - even one that was a while back, without the convolutions > >> that a mailing list requires. That is, to join this conversation the old > >> way, one would have had to subscribe to the mailing list, download an > >> mbox, and import it into ones mail client, in order that I be able to > >> reply to this message with correct threading. With Pony Mail, one has to > >> do none of those things, but can simply reply using the Web UI. To us, > >> this is a HUGE benefit for building community. The requirement to jump > >> through hoops to join a mailing list conversation drives away a lot of > >> people (at least, anecdotally, it does) and if we can remove that > >> barrier I think we'll have an easier time of drawing a new generation > >> into our projects. > >> > >> Initial Goals > >> > >> The initial goals of transitioning to the ASF is to expand and grow both > >> the Pony codebase and community, and ensure the project's continued > >> growth and stability through forming a diverse and reliable community, > >> in which the various facets of developers and contributors help keep the > >> project up to date with latest developments and technical as well as > >> social needs. > >> > >> Current Status > >> > >> Meritocracy: > >> > >> The bulk of the code has been written by Daniel Gruno to date, but has > >> had oversight from other committers, and mentors. > >> > >> All members of the Pony project and wider community have a deep > >> understanding and appreciation for the ASF meritocracy ideals, and > >> are almost solely current ASF Members. > >> > >> Community: > >> The community is currently heavily focused within the ASF, and > >> more specifically the Infrastructure group. This is to be > >> expected given the nature of how the code came into existence in > >> the first place. It should be noted that we have started > >> reaching out to other groups who we know are using mailing list > >> systems and therefore also rely on mailing list archive > >> interfaces. > >> > >> Core Developers: > >> Almost all core developers are ASF members, and are already > >> intimately familiar with the Apache Way. > >> > >> Alignment: > >> Pony will be very in line with ASF practices and processes as > >> many of the founding members are long term ASF members and > >> committers. > >> > >> Known Risks > >> > >> Orphaned products: > >> > >> We are not aware of any issues with orphaned products related to > >> this project. Pony Mail relies on a set of CSS3 templates as > >> well as some very stable programming languages. We have no > >> reason to believe these would be orphaned or, should they become > >> orphaned, that it would impact the development of the project. > >> > >> Inexperience with Open Source: > >> Most of the current committers are already ASF members and > >> committers, we do not believe there to be any concerns around > >> OSS inexperience. > >> > >> Homogenous Developers: > >> While the current mix of people involved in the project spans > >> several continents with a wide variety of skills and experience, > >> a long standing relation with the ASF applies to all committers > >> (even the non-ASF people in this proposal are intimately > >> familiar with the ASF), and we believe there to be a very > >> homogeneous culture in terms of development, IP and release > >> processes. > >> > >> Reliance on Salaried Developers: > >> While two of the committers in this project are salaried > >> developers with regards to Pony, the project was founded outside > >> of corporate interests, and is primarily driven by people either > >> working for or with ties to non-profit organisations. We see no > >> issues regarding possible strong-arming or otherwise skewing > >> project focus, nor do we believe that absence of salaries would > >> deter people from committing to this project. > >> > >> Relationships with Other Apache Products: > >> Pony Mail uses at least Apache HTTPd with mod_lua as its > >> end-user facing delivery mechanism. Many of the commiters are > >> also involved with this PMC. > >> > >> Pony also utilises ElasticSearch which is based on Lucene. > >> > >> Documentation > >> > >> Documentation will initially be in the source tree, and be part of > >> the initial code inclusion. > >> > >> Initial Source > >> > >> The initial source was written under the Apache License v/2.0 from > >> the beginning, and is available at: > >> > >> https://github.com/Quenda/ponymail > >> > >> Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan > >> > >> We know of no legal encumberments in the way of transfer of source > >> to Apache. Portions of the software (sans dependencies) is already > >> owned by the ASF, other portions privately, but it will be granted > >> to the ASF in its entirety. > >> > >> External Dependencies: > >> > >> ElasticSearch backend (Apache License v/2.0) > >> Apache HTTP Server front-end with mod_lua loaded (Apache License > >> v/2.0 for httpd, MIT for Lua) > >> Python 3.x for importing/archiving (PSF License) > >> Lua 5.1 or 5.2 + lua-cjson (MIT License, lua-cjson is optional) > >> Bootstrap/JQuery (MIT License) > >> > >> Cryptography: > >> Pony employs no cryptography other than what TLS-enabled web sites > >> served by HTTPd might use. > >> > >> Required Resources: > >> > >> Mailing lists: It would be rude not too, given this project should > >> archive them. > >> > >> Subversion Directory: Nope > >> > >> Git Repositories: > >> - incubator-ponymail.git - incubator-ponymail-site.git > >> > >> Issue Tracking: JIRA or GitHub Issues > >> > >> Other Resources: Dev stack, PoC Stack, HipChat Channel > >> > >> Initial Committers > >> > >> - Daniel Gruno < humbed...@apache.org > > >> - Tony Stevenson < pct...@apache.org > > >> - Richard Bowen < rbo...@apache.org > > >> - Ulises Beresi < ulises.cerv...@gmail.com > > >> - David P Kendal < apa...@dpk.io > > >> - Francesco Chicchiriccò - < ilgro...@apache.org > > >> > >> Affiliations > >> > >> Daniel Gruno - Quenda IvS > >> Tony Stevenson - pctony ltd, VocalIQ Ltd > >> Richard Bowen - Redhat, inc. > >> Ulises Beresi - Datastax, inc. > >> David P Kendal - Quenda IvS > >> Francesco Chicchiriccò - Tirasa S.r.l. > >> > >> Sponsors > >> > >> Champion: Suneel Marthi < smar...@apache.org > > >> > >> Nominated Mentors: > >> Andrew Bayer < aba...@apache.org > > >> > >> Sponsoring Entity: > >> The Apache Software Foundation > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
