Craig L Russell wrote: > Hi Carl, > > On May 30, 2007, at 6:14 AM, Carl Trieloff wrote: > >> One more question on this topic as I have also seen differing views >> from different members of the Incubator PMC on: "Who can and who can >> not send the account setup mail to root?" >> >> Given each new committer vote will have 3 PMC votes, why does a >> mentor have to send the account setup to root? Why can't the mail to >> root just contain a link to the vote result with 3 PMC members on it >> from the general list? > > This is a question that I believe only infrastructure can answer. The > issue is that right now, "root" has to respond only to emails from PMC > chairs, and it's easy to verify that it's really the PMC chair sending > the request.
In the general PMC case, "root" responds to requests from PMC members: "The project PMC needs to send an email to root at apache.org requesting a new account to be created" [1]. It says "project PMC" not "project PMC chair". But I think the issue is that PPMCs aren't real PMCs, so for the Incubator the request should come from a mentor. -jean [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#newcommitter >> >> Some PMC members have the view that any PPMC member should be able to >> send the account setup to root to learn the system, others say it has >> to be a mentor. Cliff has kindly taken care of most of these mail for >> us so far so this is more theoretical, however having clarity on this >> in the document would also be good as I have wondered about the >> reasoning behind this practice. If the mail to root has to be cc-ed >> to general list and PPMC and has 3 PMC votes on it then it would >> seem to me that it could be send by anyone. > > > If anyone can send the request, then "root" has to do more work by > verifying the vote thread, following the link provided in the message, > to make sure that the request is valid. > > I agree that it's better for the PPMC members themselves to be able to > make the request to root, but I'd have to leave it up to infrastructure > to decide if they can handle it. > > Craig > >> >> Carl. >> >> >> >> Craig L Russell wrote: >> >>> Having seen this identical discussion at least half a dozen times, >>> I've committed changes to the guides/ppmc document removing the >>> distracting (P) from the discussion on new committers. >>> >>> The new text says >>> >>> Only votes cast by Incubator PMC members are binding. If the vote is >>> positive, and the contributor accepts the responsibility of a >>> committer for the project, the contributor formally becomes an >>> Apache committer. An Incubator PMC member should then follow the >>> documented procedures to complete the process, and CC both the >>> Incubator PMC and the PPMC when sending the necessary e-mails to root. >>> >>> I included the redundant "Incubator" in "Incubator PMC" simply to >>> reinforce Noel's comment that PMC means Incubator PMC. >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> On May 29, 2007, at 8:49 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: >>> >>>> Yoav Shapira wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I voted +0, not having had time to review the proposed committer's >>>>> contributions. >>>> >>>> >>>> +1 != +0 >>>> >>>>> I always thought (and the documentation at >>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html) says PPMC votes are >>>>> binding. >>>> >>>> >>>> It says (P), and the (P) clearly does not belong. Notice that >>>> elsewhere it >>>> properly says PPMC, with no (), and the places that are wrong were >>>> PMC to >>>> which someone added (P). Likewise "IPMC" should simply be PMC. >>>> There is >>>> only one PMC: the Incubator PMC. >>>> >>>> I don't know how to say this more clearly. The PPMC is not a >>>> recognized >>>> entity in the ASF Bylaws. The PMC is the legal entity, and only >>>> PMC votes >>>> count in any ASF project. PPMC members should still vote, as can >>>> other >>>> members of the community, but as a legal matter, only PMC votes are >>>> binding. >>>> This is not Incubator policy, it is how the ASF works. >>>> >>>> It is the same in Jakarta, for example, where any Jakarta Committer >>>> who >>>> isn't on the PMC can vote, but only Jakarta PMC votes count. For >>>> years >>>> people didn't understand this, but please understand that Jakarta >>>> is the >>>> source of many of the wrong and bad practices in ASF projects that >>>> didn't go >>>> through either the HTTP Server project or the Incubator. >>>> >>>>> the documentation link above is out of date. >>>> >>>> >>>> It was never "in date". It is wrong, regardless of date. >>>> >>>> --- Noel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- - >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>> >>> Craig Russell >>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/ jdo >>> 408 276-5638 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > Craig Russell > Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo > 408 276-5638 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
