Sorry, Leo, but I don't see the point of your message below making
statements about CXF that are wholly untrue.
First, CXF is corporate? That's incorrect, given that it's purely the
combination of two separate open source projects, Celtix and XFire.
Celtix was developed completely under the ObjectWeb community, and
XFire was developed under Codehaus.
Second, CXF is nothing but a bunch of buzzwords? I've personally been
working for over 15 years now with numerous people in various
middleware communities on the technologies and techniques that have
led to what's going into CXF. Over the years those communities have
delivered a variety of commercial and open source systems based on
those techniques that run every single day, often for years at a
time, in production. I can assure you that these approaches are quite
far from being just buzzwords. You very likely use such systems every
single day, in fact, perhaps without knowing it -- whenever you make
a phone call or carry out a financial transaction, for example.
(Coincidentally, Mark Little, one of the people directly affected by
this whole issue, has done tons of work in this area over the years
as well.)
Lastly, CXF has strong champions like Dan D. and Dan K. working on
it, along with some strong committers. I have no doubt they'll
continue to work with their mentors to make CXF a success.
--steve
On Oct 6, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Leo Simons wrote:
Hey Martijn,
do keep sending these e-mails. Less replies doesn't mean that its
less valuable.
On Oct 3, 2006, at 9:38 PM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
Just to pose an outsider view, being new to the ASF and not to hijack
the discussion on the CFX/CeltiXFire, I would like to share my views
on the policy of the incubator.
I'm gonna respond in the generic rather than specific points.
Rest assured, the whole CXF thread doesn't apply to projects like
Wicket. Where wicket was a solid open source community already, CXF
was an attempt to start something by merging something corporate
with something open source, pour in some unknowns, and then hope
for the best.
Where wicket's technology space is essentially well-understood by
most incubator PMC members (and asf peeps world wide, most likely),
the stuff CXF focusses on is still buzzword-ridden and thus well-
avoided by many.
Do you really think a wicket contributor would've waited two months
for his account if the people around him would've been happily
committing code? Do you think you would've? I would guess board@
would've known about it by then, if not slashdot...
...It is simply a world of difference. Which makes writing a
single, sane, understandable, clear, permanent, policy for both
(well, n, there's a new world every time there's a new project)
quite hard (I've never understood why we try, but that's another
subject). For example, where I'll happily go and weigh what wicket
contributors contributed to wicket before it came to apache
(especially if those contributors rub my nose in it), I'm not gonna
care a rat's ass what Joe Corporate Developer Who Is Unknown To
Google Or Koders.com contributed to a corporate codebase before his
company came to apache.
Bluntly, a project like Wicket starts at 90% "community clearance
done" (just some IRC things to convince people of ;) ), that other
project starts at -20%-100% depending on which company it came from.
In the end, this means you don't put your trust into the process.
You put your trust into the people that make that process work, and
into processes where what those people say and do (and vote)
matters above and beyond most (some of it is legal shtuff, can vote
all you like there, ain't gonna help) process description.
Which, getting back to CXF, is now getting me really worried, since
its champion and most active mentor resigned from his position.
LSD
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