On Sun, 16 Nov 2025 at 20:55, Segher Boessenkool
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2025 at 09:36:25PM +0100, Jakub Jelinek wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 16, 2025 at 02:25:21PM -0600, Segher Boessenkool wrote:
> > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2025 at 08:43:11PM +0100, Jakub Jelinek wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2025 at 10:37:44AM -0600, Segher Boessenkool wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2025 at 12:06:57AM +0100, Jakub Jelinek wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, Nov 03, 2025 at 01:34:28PM -0500, Marek Polacek via Gcc 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I would like us to declare that C++20 is no longer experimental 
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > change the default dialect to gnu++20.
> > > > >
> > > > > Defaulting to something that is just a few years old is super
> > > > > aggressive, esp. because not many people will test building with
> > > > > something else, although we still support it (building a cross with a
> > > > > slightly older compiler, for example).
> > > > >
> > > > > So let's at least not got any further than this!  Document that five
> > > > > years is the limit, even?
> > > >
> > > > This is not bumping the minimum version that gcc can be built with,
> > > > that stays to be C++14.
> > >
> > > Yes.  But it changes the default used.  So it changes the version used
> > > on all native bootstraps, what most people use.
> >
> > So what.
>
> Not a super big deal, but as I said, not many people will test with an
> older version, so this reduces testing coverage.

But we already default to -std=gnu++17 and GCC only requires a C++14
compiler, so if there's a problem with new features sneaking into the
compiler code and not being noticed because people aren't testing with
older versions, doesn't that problem already exist?

Not to mention that stage 1 explicitly uses -std=c++14 anyway.

> Four years and a bit should be fine, but there isn't much safety margin.
>
> > The GCC codebase will still need to be valid C++14 and valid C++17
> > and now also valid C++20 (you can see in the patches I've posted it isn't
> > anything complicated to make stuff work with C++20, just libcody will be
> > harder but GCC doesn't otherwise use u8 literals).
>
> Yup.
>
> > > > This is about what C++ standard g++ uses when users don't specify
> > > > any -std= options.
> > > > E.g. for C we default to C23, which is 2 years old.  For C++ we 
> > > > currently
> > > > default to C++17, which is 8 years old.
> > >
> > > And GNU++20 is only four-and-a-half years old, quite young!
> >
> > And that is a problem why?
> > I mean, we've switched to defaulting to C23 a year ago, when it was just a
> > year old.
>
> The changes from c18 to c23 were pretty much trivial.  Not a great
> example.

Apart from the pretty bug change about what f() means in a function declaration:
https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-15/porting_to.html#c23-fn-decls-without-parameters



>
> > For a GCC developer the bump will just mean that the sources need
> > to be also valid C++20 and that bootstrap will point errors in there.
>
> It is what is used for bootstraps.  If almost everyone tests with c++20
> then the chance that things with older compilers go awry is not so
> super tiny :-(
>
> Well we'll know in time, there is that :-)
>
>
> Segher
>

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