Now here is something positive. I am with the new Vikings and can really
relate to the dissonance between the Swedish and English attitudes. My
first child was born in Scotland and I wasn't even allowed in the hospital
never mind the birthing room. In Canada I coached my wife through the next
two births and cared for the children as much as she - she has a career and
I am a house husband (with a consulting practice).
The Swedes officially recognize that raising children is valuable work done
by both sexes.
It will be interesting to see how the generation of kids raised in this way
turns out. It will probably surprise us.
The response from the Italian lady is interesting too. Evidently Italian
women find these new Vikings very attractive (compared, presumably, to
macho Italian men).
One thing I notice here in Edmonton is that there are quite a few
asian-european couples, and in almost all cases the woman is asian. Are
the asian women doing the same as the Italians - voting their preference
for non macho males (asian males tend to be pretty macho too) ? In such
quiet, little observed ways is social change effected and the definition of
work remodeled :-)
Mike
>Status: U
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>Subject: meeting between men
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Eva Palsgard)
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
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>Dear AWISE,
>
>Renaissance Vikings, an observation
>
>I had an interesting experience recently; an English male colleague of mine
>visited me here in Sweden. We had been postdocs in the same lab in the UK
>for a few years. Back here in Uppsala I thought it would be fun for him to
>meet some of the guys I did physics with here, many years ago. I never
>thought there were very big differences between England and Sweden, however�
>
>My friends here in Uppsala are now starting up families, they are on
>paternity leave etc and live fairly normal Swedish lives. The first evening
>the UK man was here we went to the pub and a Swedish friend of mine joined
>us. My Swedish friend was so relieved to get away from nappies and to be
>able to have an adult conversation for an evening. My UK friend was very
>amused to start with. An interesting conversation developed, the UK man
>implied that paternity leave was sort of a holiday. The Viking said "O no,
>a lot of work, should not even be called paternity leave, should be called
>paternity work". His son had been in a bad mood that day and very hard
>work. The conversation got more and more into what paternity meant. O yes,
>hard work but there was no way the Swedish man wanted to miss this lovely
>part of the development of his son. He wanted a close relationship with his
>son; no way he wanted to give all that up to the mother alone. This was
>very important and he said, a sign of civilisation.
>
>The next day we met another man and his expecting wife, very soon the
>discussion came into how to fit in the paternity leave with his teaching,
>his experimental work and the families general plans. UK man again amused,
>amused but also I believe, a bit alarmed. I started realising how, excuse
>me Ladies, far ahead we are in Sweden where there is no threat to manhood
>to stay away from career and look after kids. I never considered this
>during my years in the UK.
>
>The last evening we went for dinner and next to us there was a family with
>babies, grandparents and the lot. The fathers were looking after the babies
>as much as the mothers and the grandparents. When we were about to leave
>the restaurant the women were still sitting at the table talking and
>laughing. We left and in the hall we met a giggling naked girl, being
>changed by her father as they were playing. Other fathers were there too
>with their kids. My UK friend said that this just about summed up his
>experience of the modern Vikings and that now he had really seen the
>effects of feminism. I wonder how he feels now, when the experience is
>sinking in. The guys we met here think it is perfectly normal to take their
>paternity leave and that this is something important for them and their
>families' quality of life. Needless to say that in Sweden you have
>facilities for changing nappies in the gent's too.
>
>Just an observation�.
>
>Facts: http://www.si.se/eng/esverige/esverigex.html
>
>Happy Midwinter Celibrations,
>Eva
>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>Dr Eva Palsgard
>Centre for Surface Biotechnology
>BMC, University of Uppsala
>P O Box 577 SE-751 23 Uppsala
>Sweden
>
>Telephone: +46 18 4714684
>Telefax: +46 18 555016
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.ytbioteknik.uu.se/
Status: U
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:17:13 +0100 (GMT+0100)
Subject: Re: meeting between men
From: Laura Tedeschini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Precedence: list
the story about the UK man and the Viking is a great story.
I see it has got to many different lists.
Here is the first reaction of a mediteranean woman.
We have been brought up sort of in the myth that
nordic women come to the seaside in Italy to get into
a romantic affair, part of the package.
I do not know how this rates, in terms of dreams away
from home, or myths that fuel each other.
i can tell you what I am seeing more and more in this
small world that mixes people more than ever before:
one after the other, I find women friends falling
in love with a Viking, or with a Nordic, elated at the
manly behavior of a man who is still treasuring his whole
affective life, children included.
It is very reassuring, that nobody has to shut a part of his/her
life out.
ciao a tutte, Laura
