what linux distros do here? extra options to avoid deleting the basic things
like kernel and minimal userland utils? if you happen to make way too broad
package deletion. i don't think linux sysadmins want it either. even if you
consider linux moving faster and with less seatbelts ("allow shit like that"
(c) vermaden). it's not pkg fault it does wipe system clean if you asked it.
also, des@ reminded me that pkg replaced older tracking system 12 years ago.
yet, i see pkg production versions being released just recently with a bug that
user immediately notices. it was fixed because oops humans make mistakes. but
it would be a horror if pkg does those things when it manages the entire
system. granted, you can always boot at least external media when any "nuclear"
pkg update comes out. this one wasn't but... and one could say that pkgbase is
extensively discussed everywhere. but we still have discussions like this here.
even fights. what if you miss all those? i never knew 32bit is on the way out
until i happened to randomly read that warning from kernel boot log. there are
number of those things in fbsd. happened earlier, happened lately. maybe it's
inevitable. were you scared to install new major version like 5 or 13 right
away because who knows what will happen? luckily there are 2, sometimes 3
majors to choose from should some of them include rushed in late changes that
turned out to be buggy. it feels like it got worse lately. i mean more changes,
more breaks. i don't know why this isn't confined to current or stable. those
are annoying type of changes. hopefully pkgbase will not be switched on before
it's done. but pkg for ports still has issues and it's now default package
manager here. feels like too much hassle. there are many changes, i mean. good,
but extra fuzz. drm for gpus, wifi driver changes, wifi adapter firmware
loading changes. all with somebody complaining that (s)he didn't know there was
breaking change. i don't have had reason to run -af and not checking either but
if you had habit of doing that, it would be similar to rm ~ catching the /
along too. unsure what the fix is. (userland) utils and kernel printing it out
to console? over longer period of time? i mean i could understand that change
was discussed "everywhere", meetings, mailing lists. it would still be missed.
if i make something, which i only tried once, and publish it, i would never
expect them to be aware of changes i make. because release notes, changelogs,
those don't get attention. and you can still miss stuff. i once told that
correct procedure is to check everything throughly and then upgrade, but i have
passed this myself often. and have gotten "fallouts" too. in fbsd the only
thing i would need to stand back, squint and duck is when booting new current.
when pkgbase gets out in installer, i expect it to still have issues and i
would rather stand back and watch this "nuke" going off. because it does make
radical changes. one of most wtf is that now one needs to deal /etc in new
ways. and if those differ from mergemaster or etcupdate, it would make somebody
mad. perhaps even worse than i could. in my mind, changes are good. if they are
reasonable. and known. probably knowing is biggest issue. what if one misses
all those 10 different places? i never checked, does freebsd-update tell that
pkgbase is coming? does buildworld, maybe installworld tell that? that i
actually used and i don't see it. because those are like places where you see
it. i can't recall if ports warned of pkgng coming soon? i also prefer if those
messages would include plans and not final decisions to make a change. i
haven't tries pkgbase myself, maybe i will, maybe i don't. unsure what fix is.
maybe start putting things right into where everyone sees it. unsure. and if i
were you, whoever leads pkgbase initiative in "high castle" (it does feel like
this!), i would not let users delete base with -af. it's rather unusual anyway
and i don't think not deleting would get people as mad as deleting stuff. i
can't recall what was it, was it repo manager on linux distro or something else
but something wanted you to write whole sentence, observing caps and so on.
then it executed that irreversible operation. in my systems, i've been
configured things to ask date & times when i really wanted to not do anything
stupid. that would get somebody's brain working and maybe they interrupt their
autopilot mode if they didn't actually want it. trust me, deleting
freebsd-kernel, removing freebsd-bin, pkg-bootstrap... isn't what you want to
see, then it's too late. and yes, add echos to installworld end and
freebsd-update if it's not there already because that's what people see
On August 7, 2025 1:21:32 AM GMT+03:00, vermaden <[email protected]> wrote:
>So You still do not understand ...
>
>The pkg(8) command works fine - its just NOT SUPPOSE to DESTROY most of the
>FreeBSD Base System - because FreeBSD is not Linux to allow shit like that ...
>
>
>
>
>Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature
>Data: 2025-08-07 0:13
>Nadawca: "Ceri Davies" <[email protected]>
>Adresat: "vermaden" <[email protected]>;
>DW: [email protected]; [email protected];
>[email protected]; [email protected];
>
>
>
>>> On 6 Aug 2025, at 22:54, vermaden wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, it has the same behaviour.
>>>
>>> English is not my primary language so I will try to explain in more
>simple words as you probably did not understood.
>>>
>>> NOPE.
>>>
>>> It DOES NOT has the same behavior.
>>
>> In each case it forcibly deletes all the packages from your system,
>like you asked.
>>
>> I understood you fine, I just disagree that this is a shocking result
>when you have specified the “all” and “force” flags. In fact it is
>exactly what that command is documented to do and therefore is very far
>from a violation of the principle of least astonishment.
>>
>> Ceri
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
