On 2015-11-15 07:54, Dan Partelly wrote: > > Hi all, > > I was looking at the new facility of dumping JSON,XML from many utils in base > and after some funny minutes, I couldn't stop ask myself “ Ok, this is funny > , but why ? “ And I couldn't find a real answer. Ill outline what I think: > > > 1. Undoubtedly, it makes base code slightly harder to understand and > maintain.
I am not sure that libxo actually makes the code any harder to
understand and maintain. It might actually make it slightly better.
replacing:
printf("%s %s %d\n", foo, bar, number);
with:
xo_emit("{:foo/%s} {:bar/%s} {:number/%d}", foo, bar, number);
it not really hurting much.
> 2. I have seen the idea that this makes the information dumped by utilities
> in the base easily accessible programatically. OK, maybe it does , but
> it doesn't fit with the current paradigm of "tool | filter | tool” at all.
> There are no tools able to accept JSON and filter it in any meaningful way,
> and I
> dont see too many ppl changing their code to read JSON instead of text. I
> don't even see the base tools changing. This output may be useful in corner
> cases only.
> 3. The integration of libxo IMO only points at a much deeper issue IMO. It is
> only an expression of the need of a mechanism aimed at binary code reuse. But
> it does not solve the problem, it only adds yet another possibility in a
> world where too much choices already result in too much splits and
> incompatible APIs.
> 4. This whole effort would have been IMO much better served by porting the
> bulk of ifconfig(8) , route(8) and wpaclient(8) to a library API, much like
> the libs for geom, zfs , etc , ready for reuse of 3rd party code. Eventually
> writing network control daemons in time over it , much like solaris does.
>
> 5. A port of partial OS config data to UCL …. would induce yet induce another
> orthogonality violation. What makes UCL better than the bestiary of ad hoc
> databases already existing in BSDs ? Programatic readability, yes. but it
> does not add any real much needed functionality such as *transactional
> databases* for system tools. Why not research a proper solution - easily
> accessible by other programs ,orthogonal , transactional, and ACL protected
> solution which can be used all over the place , from OS boot, to ABI
> management, service management, network management, user management. I hope
> this day will come, a day when I will not have to edit a single config file
> manually, yet I would have access to all the config and system state easy
> with wrapper APIs. In the light of this point, why go with UCL ? It is not
> orthogonal, it is not transnational, and editing the config files directly
> would result in the same old human errors which bite as all from time to time.
>
> 5. It is my opinion that Solaris addressed some of those issue. Solaris FMRI
> and SMF are lightyears ahead of the very tired models we keep using on BSDs.
> Why not build on the insight offered by those (or even on the insight offered
> by Windows :P) , then inventing more adhoc solutions and ad-hoc databases,
> which do not address the real issues we have , like binary code reuse,
> service management issues, lack of a system wide published -subscriber bus (
> not kdbus :P ) fault detection and reaction, fault reporting, all much needed
> parts of a modern OS.
>
> And now thee questions
>
> 1. Why lib XO ? Why burden the OS for some corner cases where it may be
> useful ?
>
> 2. Was there any real talk on how to bring FreeBSD up to speed regarding
> those issues ? A period of research on what exists, on what can be done ,
> and ensure important things are not showed in background and replaced with
> yet another ad-hoc config database which lacks modern features ?
> From where I am standing, this could be a project spawning multiple years ,
> but it would be well worth it, and in my opinion it would be also worthy of
> the freeSBD foundation sponsorship for several years in a row. The features I
> touched upon became very important parts of oder OSes, and rightly so.
>
> Note:
>
> this message is serious and it is not intended to start flame wars, religious
> crusades, or offend anyone.
>
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--
Allan Jude
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