On 03/02/15 at 07:33P, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > On Mar 2, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Julian Elischer <jul...@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > >> On 3/2/15 5:30 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> > >>>> On Mar 2, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Andrey Chernov <a...@freebsd.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On 02.03.2015 22:55, Julian Elischer wrote: > >>>>> On 3/2/15 5:27 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> On 3/2/15 4:14 AM, Julian Elischer wrote: > >>>>>>> On 3/1/15 10:49 AM, Harrison Grundy wrote: > >>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> That does seem useful, but I'm not sure I see the reasoning behind > >>>>>>> putting into base, over a port or package, since processing XML in > >>>>>>> base > >>>>>>> is a pain, and it can't serve up JSON or HTML without additional > >>>>>>> utilities anyway. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> (If I'm reviving a long-settled thing, let me know and I'll drop it. > >>>>>>> I'm > >>>>>>> trying to understand the use case for this.) > >>>>>> To me it would almost seem more useful to have a programmable filter > >>>>>> for which you could produce > >>>>>> parse grammars to parse the output of various programs.. > >>>>>> thus > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ifconfig -a | xmlize -g ifconfig | your-favourite-xml-parser > >>>>>> with a set of grammars in /usr/share/xmlize/ > >>>>>> then we could use it for out-of-tree programs as well if we wrote > >>>>>> grammars for them.. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The sentiment of machine-readable output is nice, but I think it's > >>>>>> slightly off target. > >>>>>> we shouldn't have to change all out utilities, and it isn't going to > >>>>>> help at all with 3rd party apps, > >>>>>> e.g. samba stuff. A generally easy to program output grammar parser > >>>>>> would be truely useful. > >>>>>> and not just for FreeBSD. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I've been watching with an uncomfortable feeling, but it's taken me a > >>>>>> while to put my > >>>>>> finger on what it was.. > >>>>> Are you sure it's not the hairs on the back of your neck standing up > >>>>> due to NIH? > >>>>> > >>>>> Juniper has been doing this for years and it's very useful for them. > >>>> I'm not saying the ability to generate machine readable output is wrong, > >>>> but that the 'unix way' would be to make a filter for it. It seems that > >>>> the noisy people don't > >>>> agree with me so I will not stand in the way of progress.. > >>> I agree. Even if someone starts with json and xml only, it will need > >>> some 3rd format soon, and adding any new format have real possibility to > >>> break all already existent (like adding json+xml breaks plain text in > >>> pipes). Moreover, it violates Unix principle 'one tool == one general > >>> function' and lots of other rules like Eric Raymond ones, making each > >>> program looks like systemd. It makes harder to merge changes from other > >>> BSDs too. > >>> Proper way to do this thing is to back out all changes and write > >>> completely separate templates-based parser - xml/json writer. > >> > >> Read the library. It doesn't care what output format it needs. It is up to > >> the translation layer to do it. You could even do a csv format or most any > >> other structured output format without changing the userland utils. > > As far as I can see that's not an argument either way. > > I just think it makes more sense to spend more time writing one generic > > converter and grammar files than to mess up the insides of every utility in > > the system. If we had a tool, we could have grammar templates for 3rd party > > tools easily.. do YOU want to make libxo changes to 3rd party ports? of > > course not. so you are going off here solving a half of the problem. > > Actually I want to shame third party ports into adopting libxo (or at least > providing machine readable output). > > I know it's scary to try to lead the pack, after all we could be wrong, but > maybe it's time to try something new and see what happens. > > And no, your idea doesn't make sense it just will lead to those files bit > rotting. > > Bedsides that you don't even have a real spec other than "it should be done > differently". > > Again, show the code.
Wow. He told you want he didn't like and he moved on. I hope/wish we as a project can take criticism more positively than this. Answer to every criticism should not be "show me your code". We (should) know better than that. Hiren
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