On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Marek Hulán <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dne středa 22. listopadu 2017 11:59:16 CET, Greg Sutcliffe napsal(a): > > Heya! > > > > Answers in-line, but I wanted to put a quick summary here for folks in a > > hurry. Most, if not all, of these questions are *technical* in nature - > > they are things we can alter, either by existing settings, or by > > altering the Discourse code. I see this as similar to our Redmine > > instance - we've taken a FOSS tool and customized it to our needs, both > > via code changes and plugins. > > > > More generally, though, your post reads as a direct comparison to a > > mailing list, and as I said in my opening post, I don't think a mailing > > list is right for us anymore. > > > > I'm not trying to mislead on this point. The mailing list mode that > > Discourse offers *is* different, yes, so a direct comparision is likely > > to find flaws. The real question is whether the *other* things it does > > are worth the cost. I know (from our chat on the dev list) that you > > don't agree with my conclusions about our needs as a community, so we're > > going to end up differing on whether it's worthwhile. > > > > If we migrate, then some "getting used to" is going to be needed, for > > sure. A balance of tweaks vs change-acceptance will no doubt be found, > > some of which I expect to be altered *after* we migrate. We don't have > > to set *everything* in stone on day 1 (and that flexibility is one of > > the things I like). Some things may be possible to do per-user, which is > > even better (again, flexibility to interact with the community as each > > user wants to). > > > > > OK, specific answers: > > > > On 21/11/17 15:09, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > > > 1) Edits are not propagated to e-mail only users, I edited a post > > > andnever got an e-mail about this. > > > > > > 5) Email response is slow, I know there is some polling, but this is > > > > > > simply limiting and web users are inadvantage as they see the > > > > > > content earlier. > > > > There is no polling now, that was temporary. Inbound email is instantly > > visible in the UI. > > > > Outbound email is delayed 5 min so that people have a chance to spot > > typos, missed links etc in their posts (in the UI ofc) before the emails > > are sent. I really don't think 5 minutes is a big deal, a quick scan of > > our lists suggests average response time is Order(hours) - to claim it's > > a disadvantage seems a bit of a jump. It seems an acceptable tradeoff to > > get allow posts to be correct when sent in the first place, cutting down > > on "oops, forgot the link" style followups. > > > > As for editing, there is a limit on the length of time you can edit your > > posts, currently that seems to default to 60 days (seems too high to me, > > for sure). I guess we could set it to the same 5 mins as above, so that > > no editing can be done after mails are sent, if this is a significant > > concern for people. > > Yes please, editing feature feels odd to me. When you read the thread > later, > it can be very confusing. Especially if we don't get email notifications > about > the edit. > > > > > > 2) It seems you can't reply to yourself via email, this often > > > happens if you need to correct yourself. > > > > This needs some context for those following along, and it's actually a > > security thing. > > > > This only happens when you reply to yourself by hitting "Reply" to the > > mail in your Sent folder. In this case you'll be sending a second mail > > to "[email protected]" instead of > > "reply+{token}@community.theforeman.org", which by default will create a > > new thread. > > > > I say "by default" because there *is* a setting to allow this, but the > > consequence is that it then allows sender-spoofing to occur. Discourse > > sends a different reply token to every user, so your reply-to address is > > different to mine even for the same post, and Discourse requires the > > "From" header to match the token. Unless you have my token, you can't > > spoof-post things pretending to be me. We can disable this, but that > > means sender spoofing is then possible. Details at [1]. > > > > So, we could enable this setting, but there are also other workarounds - > > enabling "Send me my own posts" in mailing list mode will mean you have > > something to reply to with a token (albeit after 5 minutes), and > > moderators can also merge split threads back together in the UI. As > > such, I'm inclined to leave it as it is, but we can flip that setting if > > it becomes a problem. > > > > > 3) All emails contain huge button to visit the thread > > > > I see you're already asking about this upstream :) > > > > Templates are editable, yes. That said, they seem fine in my client [2], > > pretty much the same 3 lines Google Groups adds. Would love to see what > > other plaintext readers get. > > > > > 4) Does not support text/plain emails, > > > > Again [2], plaintext in Thunderbird seems OK here. > > > > The plaintext version is the raw markdown from the post, which has > > some quirks, admittedly - I've opened [3] to discuss options there - but > > largely I've been getting nice emails from it. Could be MUA specific (I > > am reminded of the quote that there are no good mail readers, only some > > that suck less than others :P). > > > > > Now, on a different topic, with possible migration we will likely > > > loose 3rd party archives. > > > > I have no idea if it was deliberate action by someone (wasn't me), but I > > saw that Nabble has already created an account on our instance [4]. Not > > sure where that ends up yet, though, will investigate. As you say, it's > > entirely solvable. I've added it to the Draft Migration Plan so it's not > > forgotten. > > > > > Then, you showed how easy is to import content into Discourse, but I > > > would like to read something about what is the plan if this whole > > > project fails. > > > > This is a good example of where the phrase "roll-back" doesn't really > > work, but rather "roll-forward" is the right term. If at some later time > > we decide we don't like Discourse, we'll plan a new migration with the > > same care that we're planning this one. > > Just to minimize the risk this could happen, I think it would be > reasonable to > run discourse and users mailing list in parallel at least for month. We > could > change all links on our web sites to mention only discourse, we could > include > the scheduled shutdown information to every reply on mailing list but just > to > be cautious, we should not drop the existing list until we're sure > discourse > works for us. > > -1 - I think it would be painful twice, I rather just do it and finish it one time instead of having to end up checking in two different places. As Greg said before, it's going to be a roll forward and less of a rollback, so regardless of the failure (on the first day or after a year) we will need to figure out how to fix it from that point onward. > -- > Marek > > > > > With regard to the data, there are rake tasks to export whole > > categories, and every post is in the DB. The mbox format is not complex > > and neither is the DB - I am certain we can handle getting every post > > out into a suitable format. As a backstop, we'll also have the archives > > on Nabble or wherever that ends up. With so many copies of the data, I > > think it's not too big a concern (no more difficult than it was to get > > the data out of Google Groups, certainly). > > > > I also think we wouldn't go back to Google groups, but move on to > > something where we could keep using the community.theforeman.org domain > > - this means email users don't have to update addressbooks. > > > > > And lastly, I see lukas_zapletal1 accounts, I was likely posting > > > under same name but different emails into the list. Is there some > > > kind of merge? > > > > Correct, the importer doesn't know those different email addresses are > > the same person. Yes, they can be merged, and I've tested it, but only > > once we stop importing the latest list posts regularly (the importer > > recreates the users while scanning the archive). I'll be happy to take a > > list of such duplicates and merge them if/when we migrate. > > > > Cheers, > > Greg > > > > [1] https://meta.discourse.org/t/reply-own-mail-creates-new-topic/74519 > > [2] https://imgur.com/a/Moe5l > > [3] > > https://meta.discourse.org/t/plaintext-and-or-raw-emails- > for-mailing-list-mo > > de/74267 [4] https://community.theforeman.org/admin/users/2186/nabble > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Foreman users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/foreman-users. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Foreman users" group. 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