Hi Maxime,

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:39:40PM +0200, Maxime Ripard wrote:
> On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 07:04:43AM +0300, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 04:24:35PM +0200, Maxime Ripard wrote:
> > > New KMS properties come with a bunch of requirements to avoid each
> > > driver from running their own, inconsistent, set of properties,
> > > eventually leading to issues like property conflicts, inconsistencies
> > > between drivers and semantics, etc.
> > > 
> > > Let's document what we expect.
> > > 
> > > Cc: Alexandre Belloni <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Alexandre Torgue <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Alex Deucher <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Alison Wang <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Alyssa Rosenzweig <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Andrew Jeffery <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Andrzej Hajda <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Anitha Chrisanthus <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Benjamin Gaignard <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Ben Skeggs <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Boris Brezillon <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Brian Starkey <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Chen Feng <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Chen-Yu Tsai <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Christian Gmeiner <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: "Christian König" <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Chun-Kuang Hu <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Edmund Dea <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Eric Anholt <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Fabio Estevam <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Gerd Hoffmann <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Haneen Mohammed <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Hans de Goede <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: "Heiko Stübner" <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Huang Rui <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Hyun Kwon <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Inki Dae <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Jani Nikula <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Jernej Skrabec <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Jerome Brunet <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Joel Stanley <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: John Stultz <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Jonas Karlman <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Jonathan Hunter <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Joonas Lahtinen <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Joonyoung Shim <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Jyri Sarha <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Kevin Hilman <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Kieran Bingham <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Krzysztof Kozlowski <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Kyungmin Park <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Laurent Pinchart <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Linus Walleij <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Liviu Dudau <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Lucas Stach <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Ludovic Desroches <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Marek Vasut <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Martin Blumenstingl <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Matthias Brugger <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Maxime Coquelin <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Maxime Ripard <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Melissa Wen <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Neil Armstrong <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Nicolas Ferre <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: "Noralf Trønnes" <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: NXP Linux Team <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Oleksandr Andrushchenko <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Patrik Jakobsson <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Paul Cercueil <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Pengutronix Kernel Team <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Philippe Cornu <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Philipp Zabel <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Qiang Yu <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Rob Clark <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Robert Foss <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Rob Herring <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Rodrigo Siqueira <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Rodrigo Vivi <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Roland Scheidegger <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Russell King <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Sam Ravnborg <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Sandy Huang <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Sascha Hauer <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Sean Paul <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Seung-Woo Kim <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Shawn Guo <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Stefan Agner <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Steven Price <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Sumit Semwal <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Thierry Reding <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Tian Tao <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Tomeu Vizoso <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Tomi Valkeinen <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: VMware Graphics <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Xinliang Liu <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Xinwei Kong <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Yannick Fertre <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Zack Rusin <[email protected]>
> > > Reviewed-by: Daniel Vetter <[email protected]>
> > > Signed-off-by: Maxime Ripard <[email protected]>
> > > 
> > > ---
> > > 
> > > Changes from v2:
> > >   - Typos and wording reported by Daniel and Alex
> > > ---
> > >  Documentation/gpu/drm-kms.rst | 19 +++++++++++++++++++
> > >  1 file changed, 19 insertions(+)
> > > 
> > > diff --git a/Documentation/gpu/drm-kms.rst b/Documentation/gpu/drm-kms.rst
> > > index 87e5023e3f55..c28b464dd397 100644
> > > --- a/Documentation/gpu/drm-kms.rst
> > > +++ b/Documentation/gpu/drm-kms.rst
> > > @@ -463,6 +463,25 @@ KMS Properties
> > >  This section of the documentation is primarily aimed at user-space 
> > > developers.
> > >  For the driver APIs, see the other sections.
> > >  
> > > +Requirements
> > > +------------
> > > +
> > > +KMS drivers might need to add extra properties to support new features.
> > > +Each new property introduced in a driver need to meet a few
> > 
> > s/need/needs/
> > 
> > > +requirements, in addition to the one mentioned above.:
> > 
> > s/above./above/
> > 
> > > +
> > > +- It must be standardized, with some documentation to describe how the
> > > +  property can be used.
> > > +
> > > +- It must provide a generic helper in the core code to register that
> > > +  property on the object it attaches to.
> > > +
> > > +- Its content must be decoded by the core and provided in the object's
> > > +  associated state structure. That includes anything drivers might want 
> > > to
> > > +  precompute, like :c:type:`struct drm_clip_rect <drm_clip_rect>` for 
> > > planes.
> > 
> > Does this effectively mean that we completely forbid driver-specific
> > properties ? While I agree that we should strive for standardization,
> > there are two issues that worry me. The first one is simple, we may need
> > to control features that would be very device-specific, and
> > standardizing properties doesn't seem to make much sense in that case.
> 
> I'd say that we should make it clear in that case that it's
> driver-specific.
> 
> > The second issue relates to properties that could be applicable to
> > multiple devices, but for which we have a single driver. Designing a
> > standard with a single data point usually leads to a bad design. I'm not
> > sure how to handle this correctly though, as we certainly don't want
> > this to be taken as an excuse to create driver-specific properties when
> > generic properties would make sense.
> 
> The discussion that made us create that patch was about this property:
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/gpu/drm/sti/sti_hdmi.c#n170
> 
> It's all kind of bad:
>   - It kind of conflicts with the generic Colorspace property
>   - It's not really a colorspace (Not that "Colorspace" is either)
>   - It could have been made generic from the start
>   - We don't have any knowledge on who uses it and why, so it's
>     difficult to rework
> 
> This was introduced before we had any kind of rule or documentation on
> the UAPI though, so there's no-one to blame really but we don't really
> want to have something like that happen again.
> 
> I agree that doing something generic from the beginning can be
> difficult, but this is some userspace API that we will have to carry
> around forever, so it's worth it I guess?

It is, no disagreement about that. Pushing driver authors to explore
standardization of properties is a good idea. As long as we have a
pragmatic approach and allow vendor-specific properties when it makes
sense, I'll have no concern.

> You have a point on the vendor properties though. Maybe we can require a
> vendor prefix for those? It would reduce the risk of a conflict.

I like the idea of a vendor prefix.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

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