I think the core developers who are making assertions about what is "accessible" and "makes sense" to newcomers would be well served by taking into account the actual experiences of newcomers. The expectation does not appear to align with reality.
On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 1:19:56 AM UTC-7 jure.er...@gmail.com wrote: > I'd like to chime in with this: > > There was a point in time when we ran into this issue and solved it with > our own Model descendant. > > IMHO, I'm completely with Aaron on this: all the guts are there, just not > being used. It took me quite a while to wrap my brain around the idea that > validation would be specified in models, but only used in forms. And then > some more looking at why all the support functions are in models, but not > being used. It just didn't compute why I would have validation when using > Django one way, but not when I wanted something a little different. > > While all the arguments against providing this function are valid and > good, they neglect that an implementation satisfying n00bs like me would > really not carry any penalties: it's just an if in the model.save checking > against a global setting. No code creep, no additional tests to write (but > I'm pretty sure some of the existing ones might fail, django or end-app). > It would remove some confusion, but grandmasters like yourselves could > still turn it off and do it the way you believe is "the correct one". > > Also, just to be clear: the above solution (turning this on) yielded TONS > of bugs when we did it for our projects. We vastly improved unit testing > following this implementation, so it was a total win for us. > > LP, > Jure > On 9. 10. 22 08:58, James Bennett wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 8:32 PM Aaron Smith <aa...@aaronsmith.co> wrote: > >> Surely we can agree that *something* should happen here? The status quo >>> is confusing, a footgun and a gotcha. If it's not Model's concern, then get >>> it out of Model. >>> >> > I've already said that I wish model-level validation hadn't been added to > Django. > > Unfortunately it's something that's been in long enough now that it would > be very difficult to deprecate and remove. But that's not an argument, to > my mind, for expanding it. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAL13Cg8ZvG6%3DtCNEEKV-4rQURzZ_GFSuPRypkoOOqGULFC9pZw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAL13Cg8ZvG6%3DtCNEEKV-4rQURzZ_GFSuPRypkoOOqGULFC9pZw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/f51c389c-ad1c-430a-8029-c9fef489ed00n%40googlegroups.com.
