On Thu, Mar 27 2008 at 02:41:32AM BRT, James Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> though I'm not saying that you shouldn't apply for SoC, I'd like to
> say that I'd approach this with extreme reservations.
>
> Here's why:
>
> Porting Django to Python 3.0 at this point is likely to be a rather
> complex task; it'll require a solid working knowledge of both Django's
> internals and Python 3.0, and a familiarity with the codebases that
> can only come from an extensive commitment to knowing and
> understanding both. So I'm a bit worried that anyone would try it
> without the requisite background in how Django currently works or a
> history of contributing code to the project.
I tend to agree, up to a certain degree, and, at this point, I certainly
have more experience with Python than with Django. However, I'm starting to
get more involved with Django, and it is precisely for this sort of input
that I wrote to the list (so, thanks :)).
> Add to that the fact that "Django", just Django, doesn't exist in a
> vacuum: at a bare minimum it needs database adapters and a web server
> interface. It's unlikely that any of the non-SQLite database adapters
> will be ported to Python 3.0 by the time SoC is over, which means that
> you'd have something that only runs on SQLite.
I have a different view of GSoC projects. I don't think it should be an
isolated, "end of summer, end of story" project. If, after a successful
migration, there is only one available backend (SQLite), I still think it's
a significant win. People can start working on porting their own projects
using SQLite to test, there is more drive to port the other adapters etc. I
was also encouraged on this aspect by Graham's experience with porting
mod_wsgi.
> And on top of that, the big draw of Python and, by extension, Django,
> is and always will be the rich ecosystem of third-party code to draw
(...)
> and it's going to be a good long while
> before enough of it is on 3.0 to really offer anything to application
> writers.
True, it'll be a while, but there will likely not be a unique wave of ports,
and different libraries will be ported in different timeframes. If there is
a working port of Django, developers can start taking advantage of libraries
as they get ported, instead of waiting for all (for some definition of
"all") of them to get ported, *then* for Django to get ported. People who
depend on fewer external libraries will be able to use Django on py3k
earlier, and I see no harm in that.
Besides, people are already experimenting with porting their code to py3k,
so I'm getting the feeling it won't take so long for libraries to get
ported. Requests from Django developers who are already playing with py3k
code should help speed up that process.
> So even if this project wraps up with a spot-on perfect port of the
> Django codebase, it would still be developing something that only runs
> on (at most) one database, probably can't actually sit behind a web
> server, and which doesn't have any useful third-party code to draw
> upon.
That may be so at the exact final day of the GSoC, but, as more code gets
ported, increasingly more people will be able to use it at once.
> To me, the key to a successful SoC proposal is something that, at the
> end of the summer there's something people can immediately pick up and
> get use out of, something that's already adding value to Django for
> end users. And unfortunately, porting to Python 3.0 -- while a cool
> thing to do -- isn't likely to be of much practical use any time this
> decade.
Again, I disagre with that, at least on what "get use out of" means, for the
reasons I explained above. The port might not be instantly suitable for a
sizeable project, but that's not the only advantage that such a port would
offer.
Thanks again for your feedback, James! I'd love to hear more from other
developers on this matter.
rbp
--
Rodrigo Bernardo Pimentel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | GPG KeyId: <0x0DB14978>
http://isnomore.net
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Django developers" group.
To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
