I'm tinkering around with a GNUstep mac-alike desktop. The Web Browser is a very important component. I'll only use Firefox or Chrome at this point as I need features. I don't mind the idea of getting Webkit running with a GNUstep port, but that project has been going for 20 years and hasn't made much traction. Wrapping firefox or Chrome in a GNUstep compatible window seems to be the way to go here.
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 at 06:46, Riccardo Mottola <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > Patrick Cardona wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Until now, we have not a modern neither efficient web browser well > > integrated in the GNUstep echosystem on GNU/Linux nor BSD: > > No we don't... and we will perhaps never have if a miracle happens. It > is a hot topic and was discussed to death in the past - especially for > those aiming at a Workspace (aka Desktop Environment). I invested > personally a lot of hours in it. Read my sarcasm at the end, please. > > Even checking other projects, they either have a "substandard" browser > (but still better than us, read below) or you just use Firefox or Chrome > and both of them look badly and out of place everywhere and seem to be > fighting on who deteriorates the interface most. > > > > > - Vespucci builds, but due to the limited SimpleWebKit, it does not > > pass the ACID2 level test. > > That is known and will never happen. No CSS display support, no real JS. > On the other side of the medal, SWK is pure native and the most > promising approach. > Never a full browser, it is extremely useful for embedding, native and > quick. Display is fast, integration is total (copy-paste and you get > real attributed strings with no glitches). > It would allow Grr or GNUMail to display quickly HTML, same goas for > hypothetical embedded browsing. > > Do you know why on Windows (or mac or GNOME) an app appears to kill your > computer? It might embed once or more a browser just for simple views. > I remember a business softphone installed in a company... just the about > panel had some animated clickable links: to render that they embedded > essentially a chromium frame. Absurd, overkill.. but probably quickly to > develop. > > > - gs-webbrowser (chromium) does not work anymore due to the new > > security upgrade of chromium. > > > > This (or a similar approach, like Berkelium tried with CEF) would be the > quickes approach, unfortunately, it will be also the one with the "worst > interface". But it is harder nowadays. > Microsoft surely did that when doing its Blink-based Edge since one can > see those webprocess starting from other apps. > For sure, direct integration, empedding, copy-pasting text will be > always inferior, but could be good enough. > > > There are two other ways I think about, but those are not in my skills > > now: > > > > 1) New Web Browser upon LuaKit > > > > - Luakit Web Browser uses C, Lua, Gtk and an up to date WebKit: see > > https://luakit.github.io/ and https://github.com/luakit/luakit > > > > Seems just a little bit contrived, doesn't it? > We could wrap WebKit directy instead. Either with Obj-C++ or in the past > somebody attempted an Obj-C wrapper... I was almost tempted to look at > it again, but don't remember why it stagnated and why it stopped. I > don't now if there was a big issue somewhere or if it was sheer manpower > issue tracking all the APIs and wrapping them. > I had limited success with wrapping C++ with xpdf updates without > requiring Obj-C++ > > > There are other options... embedding gecko is today very hard. Camino > project (native mac look and integration) was stopped due to changes > exactly in that. But maybe still possible > > > > > I throw my bottle to the sea... Maybe people with the needed skills > > could try and achieve this? > > I could help testing. > > Honestly? no... nobody does work on that. A bit of testing doesn't help. > It needs a lot of workforce. > Most people use Chrome and suffer, at most Firefox. Both are > company-screwed. All the rest is occasional developing. > When Nikolaus worked on SWK I tried to help, but beyond that no > interest, just criticism. > I maintain since years a Firefox/PaleMoon fork which is more compatible > with non-TIER1 platforms. Interest in it has grown a lot, I see > downloads, bugs... but no real help. Sometimes don't go the mile even > to compile and bisect an issue. Developers are scarce, especially in > that field. Lots of work, little reward. > Same goes with Seamonkey, a wonderful browser, the origin of Mozilla > itself, not a stepchild snobbed by the foundation itself and trailing > behind because Firefox needs to do its latest crap... Advertising, AI, > WebGPU or whaterver, forgetting its roots. > > And one thing I learned from working on ArcticFox: the predominance of > Google has killed all webstandards, it is worse than IE times > essentially. In under a year, the requirements for many websites has > increased dramatically, weeding out everything which is not > latest-greatest and identifies with it. Not only sites like GitHub are > crazy with it, but also things like Cloudflare which are now put in > front of a lot of websites. Cloudflare provenly favors WebKit and Blink > browsers penalizing Firefox and anyway working only on latest. Try using > SeaMonkey or last year ESR and you are dead. Why they do that, I don't > know, it is extreme. > > Sorry to sound so negative, because I am on this topic. > > Riccardo > > >
