Liam, Really not in the mood this morning, but here goes...
On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 9:25 AM Liam Proven <[email protected]> wrote: > Not my project and nothing to do with me. I just thought it might be > of interest. > > https://github.com/phkaeser/wlmaker/tree/main > > Why? > > Well this is highly relevant to NEXTSPACE and GSDE. > > Wayland is not yet ready to replace X11 but it is doing so anyway, right > now. > > As evidence for #3 below, you should be aware that GNUstep currently has a wayland capable backend. It is still in development, but it is there. > The next version of Fedora will not include X.org by default. Ubuntu > will follow close behind. > > It's happening and it's going. > > It has long seemed to me that the GNUstep project and people are in > denial about what GNUstep is and its future. No one in this project is in denial. It only seems so because you 1) Have contributed ABSOLUTELY NO code. 2) Post only when you have something negative to say 3) Don't seem to keep abreast of the changes on the project as evidenced by the lack of information in some of your posts. > This is already having > negative repercussions for the project. > Can you be specific? For example the 2 most visible projects to offer replacements for > Apple macOS do not use GNUstep: > > https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ Probono realized after doing his live cd that taking GNUstep the rest of the way involved ACTUAL work that he was unwilling to do. Yes, I am calling you out Probono if you happen to read this list. https://ravynos.com/ While I respect her effort to re-create macOS that is not GNUstep's goal. The goal of this project is to create a cross-platform API, not a desktop. This is about doing what we are best at. We had this discussion several weeks ago, apparently you didn't read it or didn't care enough to take note. Additionally ravynos is based on the now defunct cocotron project whose code has not been updated in 8+ years. So, even if successful, what they will end up with is something that is woefully behind. Good luck. :) For instance the ENTIRE implementation of NSTreeController (a class I recently worked on for GNUstep and completed...) looks like this... _____ * Copyright (c) 2006-2007 Christopher J. W. Lloyd Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE. */ #import <AppKit/NSTreeController.h> #import <AppKit/NSRaise.h> @implementation NSTreeController -initWithCoder:(NSCoder *)coder { NSUnimplementedMethod(); return self; } -(void)encodeWithCoder:(NSCoder *)coder { NSUnimplementedMethod(); } -copyWithZone:(NSZone *)zone { NSUnimplementedMethod(); return [self retain]; } @end _____ Seems... I dunno... rather *UNIMPLEMENTED* LOL... it does not inspire my confidence in rayvnOS as a whole. Also, I believe the codebase of both should be vetted for use of GNUstep code as using the LGPL in MIT-licensed code would effectively make the entire thing LGPL. (The latter began as a fork of the former but is now going a different way.) > > GNUstep, like it or not, is 3 different things: > > 1. A set of what at least 1 of its developers likes to call > "Cocoa-compatible development libraries" > Nice, again, this backs up #2, and this has been the determination for this project since I took over maintainership in 2008 and it was a question then, and it should not be one now. (I think this is unhelpful as Apple no longer uses the "Cocoa" naming.) > This is utter BS and you know it, Liam. Please stop reposting things you know are false. We had this discussion before. For those interested Liam is possessed of the notion that AppKit+Foundation on the macOS are no longer referred to as Cocoa. Even if that is so. That is what they called it, the reference still applies. Live with it. :) 2. A desktop environment for Linux and xBSD built with this tools. I > know of 2 extant desktop environments built from these: NEXTSPACE and > GSDE. > There is a third coming known as Gershwin. 3. A Linux software packaging and distribution system built from > these: ".app" application bundles. This is, or at least should have > been, a rival to AppImage, the GNOME Flatpak format, and Canonical's > Snap format. > We don't have a monopoly on the .app extension, but it is well known that we were the first to use it on linux. > At present GNUstep is getting critically dated because Objective-C is > heading towards obsolescence, replaced by Swift. > > https://github.com/swiftlang/swift > This is a link to the language repo, not proof ObjC is being replaced. I had a friend that I worked with about 8 years ago who predicted that all of Cocoa (YESSS COCOA!!!) and UIKit would be replaced by Swift within 1-2 years. Hasn't happened yet, looks like it isn't going to. Keep dreaming. That being said I have been looking into getting the portions in the Swift compiler that are under SWIFT_OBJC_INTEROP to work on GNUstep. So work is being done. > Swift is FOSS and cross-platform. It runs on and targets all Apple > OSes, plus Linux, Android, and Windows, as my colleague wrote: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/30/official_swift_programming_for_windows/ To quote the article "So long as you don't need a GUI" ;) Before better websites or better docs, support for Swift on GNUstep as > well as Obj-C should, IMHO, be a burningly pressing priority for > GNUstep, but it does not seem to be. > You would know if you ASKED. Because it is. I, personally, have been focused on getting the existing code updated. > However, very soon after that, if GNUstep can't target Wayland it will > be history as well. WLmaker could potentially be a lifeline. > > It already does, as mentioned above. It might let GSDE and NEXTSPACE survive at least. > They do contribute back, but plenty is going on to do interesting things in GNUstep. GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
