> On 27-Mar-2021, at 1:49 AM, Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Dr. Joel, > > I finally built rtems-libbsd and see that pselect and sockatmark are > both defined there. I went ahead and added a "In rtems-libbsd" column > in the spreadsheet to reflect that. > > With those two defined, it looks like the only methods from the FACE > 3.0 General Purpose Profile that aren't currently supported are > confstr() and the <spawn.h> set. Could I ask, what is the thinking on > those? The man page suggests that spawn was created with embedded > systems in mind, but I'd guess a conscious decision was made to leave > them out? How about confstr? > > Thank you! > > Matt > Hi Matt Confstr code is ready just under styling issues. So maybe you could count it as Present.
Thanks - Eshan > >> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 2:18 PM Joel Sherrill <j...@rtems.org> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 7:14 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dr. Joel, >>> >>> Thanks very much, that's a big help! Correct, I've been updating the >>> spreadsheet as I go along. Ok, now I see that strlcat/strlcpy are used >>> in rtems/cpukit and implemented in Newlib. >>> >>> One additional question, please: I haven't yet looked into the source >>> of NetBSD or FreeBSD, but I do see that Newlib already implements >>> ppoll (poll.cc), dladdr (dlfcn.cc), pselect (select.cc), and >>> sockatmark (net.cc). None of them are defined in the rtems environment >>> yet. Is there any reason why the NetBSD/FreeBSD version would be >>> preferable to Newlib for these? Or is it just a matter of testing >>> what's out there to find what works well in the rtems environment? >> >> >> Without looking at the newlib git repo, I can tell you that the files >> you cite are the implementation of those methods for Cygwin. Just >> because they are in C++. :) >> >> The parts of the newlib repo RTEMS uses are under the newlib/ >> subdirectory not the cygwin one. Within that, there is a libc/sys and >> only libc/sys/rtems is used for RTEMS. The others are for different >> operating systems. There are a few places with "machine" directory >> structures. Only the ones for the architecture you are building for >> is used. >> >> As to why NetBSD for libdl, that is because portions of the code >> originated there. >> >> And rtems-libbsd is based on FreeBSD. It is as close to the FreeBSD >> source as we can keep it. >> >>> >>> >>> In my proposal I'll take your advice and work on some of the easier >>> ones first in order to get the experience and process down. >> >> >> There are tickets for a lot of methods. The rtems-docs repo has the >> csv file (e.g. spreadsheet) which tracks RTEMS support against >> various standards. The RTEMS POSIX Compliance Guide is generated >> from that csv file. Between those, you can find other methods to ask >> about. In general, if it is required by the Software Communications >> Architecture (SCA) or FACE Technical Standard, then it is a method >> someone expected to possibly be used in an embedded system. >> SCA is a set of POSIX profiles focused on software defined radios and >> the FACE Technical Standard was developed with avionics in mind. >> >> But any are fair game if they are actually implementable. I don;t think >> the Compliance Guide says it yet, but we decided last year that >> wordexp() is likely not supportable on RTEMS. The newlib >> implementation assumes the presence of a shell with wildcard expansion >> and ability to fork a process. >> >> --joel >> >>> >>> >>> Thank you again for your time! >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:03 PM Joel Sherrill <j...@rtems.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Wow! Good work. There is a lot to digest here. Comments interspersed. >>>> >>>> I assume the spreadsheet is updated. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 7:38 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Dr. Joel, >>>>> >>>>> I've gone over the list a few times now and see a few categories shaping >>>>> up: >>>>> >>>>> 1) Already done (In Newlib source, defined in libc.a): >>>>> a) reallocarray >>>>> b) qsort_r >>>>> c) memmem >>>>> d) strlcat / strlcpy >>>>> d) wcslcat / wcslcpy >>>>> *Out of this group, strlcat and strlcpy also show up in >>>>> src/rtems/cpukit. Why is that? >>>> >>>> >>>> The good news is that we support these. :) >>>> >>>> It looks to me that strlcat and strlcpy are used in cpukit but not >>>> implemented >>>> there. Where do you think they are implemented. >>>> >>>> This is a good example where a source code browser is helpful. grep can >>>> often answer the question but a source code browser can be easier. >>>> Personally, >>>> I use cscope but that is exceedingly old school. Any modern IDE should be >>>> helpful. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2) Not done yet (Do not show up in Newlib source or RTEMS): >>>>> a) getlocalename_l >>>>> b) posix_getdents >>>>> c) sem_clockwait >>>>> d) sig2str / str2sig >>>>> >>>>> 3) Not in Newlib; Referenced in RTEMS but hidden behind #ifdef: >>>>> a) pthread_cond_clockwait >>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/condition_variable) >>>>> b) pthread_mutex_clocklock >>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/mutex) >>>>> c) pthread_rwlock_clockrdlock >>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/shared_mutex) >>>>> c) pthread_rwlock_clockwrlock >>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/shared_mutex) >>>>> *It looks like some groundwork was done, but the methods are not yet >>>>> supported. >>>> >>>> >>>> The paths you point to are C++ files that would implement C++ features >>>> using the available POSIX services. So they are users, not providers. >>>> >>>> All of the pthread services related to these are implemented in >>>> cpukit/posix/src. I think you can configure a clock for all these now >>>> to be used by detailed on wait and timedwait calls. My understanding >>>> is that these would let you use a specific clock on a per blocking call >>>> basis. >>>> >>>> First question is which clocks are intended to be supported. >>>> >>>> Second is the pattern of picking which timeout queue to go on when >>>> now it is coded to let you pick one which is used for the life of the >>>> object. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4) Misc (In Newlib source, not defined in libc.a, appear in RTEMS in >>>>> various ways) >>>>> a) getentropy (an alternate version is defined in RTEMS librtemsbsd.a, >>>>> in src/rtems/bsps/shared/dev/getentropy/getentropy-cpucounter.c. The >>>>> comments note that it is not cryptographically secure, so it may not >>>>> fit the bill for the getentropy() mentioned in the Open Group >>>>> document) >>>> >>>> >>>> I am far from a cryptography expert but this looks like a case where >>>> this method would be considered supported with the disclaimer that >>>> the quality of the entropy value depends on the BSP. If the user has >>>> specific requirements, they will need to verify the implementation >>>> used by the BSP by default is appropriate. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> b) ppoll (appears in rtems/6/share/gdb/syscalls) >>>> >>>> >>>> You need to be more careful with the grep. These again are in the >>>> installed tools and in this case, they appear in an XML file. Referenced >>>> but not implemented. >>>> >>>> ppoll() will need to come from rtems-libbsd. The required system call >>>> is included but disabled currently. AFAIK this means it is possible to >>>> provide this but that would require a more detailed discussion in case >>>> some underlying capability is missing. Chris Johns and Sebastian >>>> Huber would be the ones to guide here. >>>> >>>> Ruling: Likely possible. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> c) dladdr (appears in rtems/cpukit but not defined) >>>> >>>> >>>> I think this can be implemented in libdl but I am not sure if the >>>> code from NetBSD from this would directly work or just be a guide. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 5) Others? >>>>> It looks like there was work done on methods like sockatmark and >>>>> pselect, but I don't see them supported as yet. Should those be added >>>>> to the list or are they still being worked on? >>>> >>>> >>>> These would come from rtems-libbsd. >>>> >>>> I think sockatmark.c is implemented in freebsd/lib/libc/net/sockatmark.c >>>> but I don't know if the ioctl() is implemented. I expect it is but this >>>> would >>>> at least require a test. It may just work. >>>> >>>> pselect() looks to be missing and would have to be ported from FreeBSD. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> As you suggested, I'll look into NetBSD for dladdr and do some digging >>>>> on the implementation of the other outstanding methods. You mentioned >>>>> that the "clock" ones have to be strictly added to rtems/cpukit, but >>>>> the references I found above are all in lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1. >>>>> Why is that the case and what is 10.2.1? Also, I'm not sure what to >>>>> make of getentropy and ppoll based on what I found above...at your >>>>> convenience could you please advise? >>>> >>>> >>>> Hopefully the above helped. >>>> >>>> You don't have to restrict your possible set to these new additions. >>>> There are others. I think Eshan has done the research for where to >>>> get implementations of the missing long double methods for newlib. >>>> And there are tickets for other missing methods or specific capabilities >>>> in methods that are supported. Those are quite possible to have >>>> some alternatives that are easier to approach. >>>> >>>> --joel >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much! >>>>> >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 6:38 PM Joel Sherrill <j...@rtems.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:28 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gentlemen, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Awesome, thanks! I see how that works now...I'll give it a thorough >>>>>>> look tomorrow and will update the spreadsheet accordingly. I'll pipe >>>>>>> back up when I have a more accurate look of what's currently there. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Knowing what doesn't have to be done is the first step. (rtems, newlib, >>>>>> and libbsd) >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd be prone to look for things that are easy to add first. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some may not be implementable on RTEMS due to only supporting a >>>>>> single process and no virtual memory. If you have doubts on whether it >>>>>> is possible to support a specific method, speak up and let's try to >>>>>> decide. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then find upstream places for an implementation where possible. I suspect >>>>>> all the new "clock" methods will require discussion on an implementation >>>>>> pattern but those must strictly be added to rtems/cpukit with tests and >>>>>> documentation. At least I can throw you that much. :) >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks again and have a great Sunday! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:27 PM Joel Sherrill <j...@rtems.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:08 PM Gedare Bloom <ged...@rtems.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 11:16 AM Matthew Joyce >>>>>>>>> <mfjoyce2...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dr. Joel, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks very much...I'll keep working to get a sense of what goes >>>>>>>>>> where! In the meantime, where can I look to get the ground truth of >>>>>>>>>> which methods are "in RTEMS" as opposed to those in newlib? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is only one ground truth: >>>>>>>>> git://git.rtems.org/rtems.git >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And for newlib >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> git://sourceware.org/git/newlib-cygwin.git >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That said, searching for the function name symbols in compiled >>>>>>>>> libraries is a good first step to rule out newlib. Then, you can >>>>>>>>> 'grep' the RTEMS source code for the function names to see if they >>>>>>>>> exist there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> rtems/cpukit to be specitic. It won't be implemented anywhere else. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And clearly we both have forgotten that networking APIs are in the >>>>>>>> rtems-libbsd repository. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://git.rtems.org/rtems-libbsd/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suspect ppoll() might already be in there. Or at least supported by >>>>>>>> FreeBSD. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You should clone everything and grep the sources. newlib already has >>>>>>>> qsort_r. This is the nm I used: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> $ ~/rtems-work/tools/6/bin/sparc-rtems6-nm >>>>>>>> ~/rtems-work/tools/6/sparc-rtems6/lib/libc.a | grep qsort_r >>>>>>>> lib_a-bsd_qsort_r.o: >>>>>>>> 00000000 T __bsd_qsort_r >>>>>>>> lib_a-qsort_r.o: >>>>>>>> 00000000 T qsort_r >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Notice the last line has "T qsort_r" which says it is defined. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> grep -r in the newlib source shows it is in ./libc/search/qsort_r.c >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> dladdr() looks to be prototyped in RTEMS but hidden behind an ifdef >>>>>>>> like it >>>>>>>> wasn't ported from NetBSD so that looks possible. It is in rtems. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Those two examples should help you figure out why you missed >>>>>>>> finding some things that were implemented. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I need to figure out what this next POSIX version is to be called >>>>>>>> so I can update the tracking spreadsheet that generates the RTEMS >>>>>>>> POSIX Compliance Guide, :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --joel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks again! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:58 PM Joel Sherrill <j...@rtems.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Keep devel@ on the list. :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 7:51 AM Matthew Joyce >>>>>>>>>>> <mfjoyce2...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the link! I see that you're right, those last four >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> in newlib, plus memmem(). I updated those in the Google Sheet. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now I see the newlib part, but where are you referring to >>>>>>>>>>>> specifically >>>>>>>>>>>> when you say RTEMS, as in "POSIX support comes from a mix of RTEMS >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> newlib"? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> POSIX is a HUGE HUGE standard and references other standards. One >>>>>>>>>>> it references and pulls in is the C99 Standard C Library which is >>>>>>>>>>> libc and >>>>>>>>>>> libm. RTEMS mostly does not implement this functionality and relies >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> another open source project for those APIs. Newlib is an open source >>>>>>>>>>> C Library used by RTEMS, Cygwin, and most embedded systems GNU tools >>>>>>>>>>> chains. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Most of the POSIX header files with RTEMS are actually in Newlib >>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>> if they originated with RTEMS. Many are shared with Cygwin. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So methods like the string, memory, and *printf come from Newlib >>>>>>>>>>> since they >>>>>>>>>>> are in C99. We provide POSIX like threading, signals, core file >>>>>>>>>>> access, and >>>>>>>>>>> much more. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's a complementary relationship but it takes a bit to figure out >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> something should be in one or the other. The line gets blurred at >>>>>>>>>>> times. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Say you added a new CPU architecture implementation of a math >>>>>>>>>>> method (like Eshan did last year), then it goes in newlib. But he >>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>> added some POSIX methods which go in RTEMS. In either case, >>>>>>>>>>> we like tests for them in RTEMS to show they work in our >>>>>>>>>>> environment. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --joel >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:13 PM Joel Sherrill <j...@rtems.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 6:40 AM Joel Sherrill <j...@rtems.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 5:48 AM Matthew Joyce >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mfjoyce2...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1reCNOIZC5JTwQENgl-hvG8THfQqNtlUDVy_07PYodic/edit?usp=sharing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As suggested by Dr. Sherril, I've taken an initial look through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document https://www.opengroup.org/austin/docs/austin_1110.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> added the new methods to a Googe Sheet, linked above. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None of them appear to be in the RTEMS POSIX API Users Guide, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe that's not the right place to look. I'll stand by for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback regarding what's possible / desirable to add to RTEMS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is possible they are in our C Library or Math Library. Or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just not in the manual. The POSIX manual tends to be sparse >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you can always use man pages or the POSIX standard. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since you have RTEMS and tools built. Find one of the libc.a and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> libm.a files in the tools install and librtemscpu.a in the RTEMS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> build or install. Then try a command something like this: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CPU-rtems6-nm LIBRARY | grep SYMBOL >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you see it list with T then it is in the text section and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Following up, I initially answered from my phone and didn't look >>>>>>>>>>>>> at source. I am still on my phone but looked through the list >>>>>>>>>>>>> and think the last four methods are probably the only ones >>>>>>>>>>>>> currently supported. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://sourceware.org/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;a=tree;f=newlib/libc/string;h=ceeec602cdd0e6b5c6b002b741bda9b41da4e441;hb=HEAD >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> POSIX support comes from a mix of RTEMS and newlib. That's key to >>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of project. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks very much for your time! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> devel mailing list >>>>>>>>>> devel@rtems.org >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list > devel@rtems.org > http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel _______________________________________________ devel mailing list devel@rtems.org http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
