I strongly support this idea On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 6:12 PM Aoife Moloney via devel-announce < [email protected]> wrote:
> Wiki - > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ChangesDiscussionOnlyOnDevelList > Discussion thread - > > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f46-change-proposal-changes-discussion-only-on-devel-list/197431 > > == Summary == > Starting with Fedora Linux 46, discussion of Fedora Changes as part of > the [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/operations/pgm%20guide/changes/ > Changes Process] will happen solely on the devel mailing list and will > no longer be simultaneously discussed on Fedora Discussion (the > Discourse forum). Changes will continue to be announced on Discourse > in read-only topics to provide a bridge between the two platforms. > This Change aims to improve communication by avoiding having two > separate mediums for the same discussion. > > == Owner == > * Name: [[User:gotmax23| Maxwell G]], [[User:ngompa| Neal Gompa]], > [[User:decathorpe| Fabio Valentini]], [[User:salimma | Michel Lind]] > * Email: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], > [email protected] > > > == Detailed Description == > Starting with Fedora Linux 46, discussion of Fedora Changes as part of > the [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/operations/pgm%20guide/changes/ > Changes Process] will happen solely on the devel mailing list and will > no longer be simultaneously discussed on Fedora Discussion (the > Discourse forum). Changes will be announced on Discourse in read-only > topics with links to the wiki page and devel discussion for each > Change to provide a lightweight bridge between the two platforms. > > This Change aims to improve communication by avoiding having two > separate mediums for the same discussion. The current "split brain" > approach has been a significant pain point for Change Owners, FESCo > members, and other project contributors attempting to follow Changes > feedback discussion. Contributors have noted this as a cause of > burnout. > > If technically feasible to use on read-only Discourse threads, we will > keep the bot enabled that creates non-binding polls ("How do you feel > about the proposal as written?") to collect community feedback on > Changes. We will also adapt the bot to disable the anonymous results > option on the Discourse polls so individual voices are better heard. > FESCo will consider the polls alongside feedback on the devel list > when voting on proposed Changes. > > == Feedback == > There was some pre-Change discussion in > "[ > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected]/thread/Q7KX3BDBUPCNOPVALP5GKR2MHTWB6ASD/ > How can we improve the Changes Process?]" > ([ > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/VPQXOLZV3NVUOVTF4VCUEZU2BEFCQVQ5/ > Maxwell's summary/takeaways]) on the devel list. This discussion was > covered by LWN in > [https://lwn.net/Articles/1081557/#:~:text=Changes%20to%20changes > Fedora grapples with change § Changes to changes]. > > Additional feedback was provided in a > [ > https://matrix.to/#/!DMptnKvPTdgoULzUTV:fedoraproject.org/$MuM8JzFoXojgU1x1LJMUO1Vn6kqOzTOjxSaLwqdjvdw?via=fedoraproject.org&via=fedora.im&via=matrix.org&web-instance%5Belement.io%5D%3Dchat.fedoraproject.org > discussion in the #devel room on Matrix]. Feedback about Changes > Discussion on Discourse was largely negative. Multiple contributors > expressed that the current state of Changes discussion led to burnout. > > '''Q/A:''' > > * Why not just use Discourse for all Change Proposals and stop > discussing them on the mailing list? > ** The Change Owners do not wish to alienate or exclude existing > contributors who rely on the mailing list workflow to participate in > discussion. Other Fedora development discussion takes place on the > devel mailing list, so it does not make sense to migrate only Changes > discussion. Additionally, we believe that Discourse is an ill-suited > platform for long, threaded discussions surrounding Fedora Changes. > This position was discussed in more depth in the Matrix and devel list > discussions linked above. > * What about the email interface for Discourse? > ** The email interface for Discourse is not comparable to a mailing > list, and it de-prioritizes email users. The Discourse email support > delays sending email notifications, makes formatting look out of place > on responses sent via email, and email users miss out on reactions and > other types of engagement. The ability to reply by email does not > solve the issues with Discourse as a platform. > > == Benefit to Fedora == > This Change aims to address a significant pain point in discussion of > Fedora Changes. This should also simplify the Change Wrangler's work. > > == Scope == > * Proposal owners: > ** Update documentation and FESCo issue templates to clarify that the > devel mailing list is the canonical medium for Changes discussion. > ** Work with the Change Wrangler to implement the necessary process > changes. > > * Other developers: > ** Change wrangler: Announce Changes as usual on the devel-announce > list. Stop copying and formatting Changes Proposal wikitext to/for > Discourse. Create read-only posts on Discourse with links to the Wiki > post and lists.fedoraproject.org discussion thread for each Change. > ** Implement the proposed Changes to the Discourse voting poll > creation bot. If these Changes are infeasible, disable the bot. > > * Release engineering: > [https://forge.fedoraproject.org/releng/tickets/issues #Releng issue > number] > > * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change) > > * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) > > * Alignment with the Fedora Strategy: > > > == Upgrade/compatibility impact == > > > == Early Testing (Optional) == > > > == How To Test == > > > == User Experience == > Users, contributors, Change Owners, and FESCo members will all have > one less place to follow for discussion about proposed Fedora Changes. > Changes will continue to be announced on Fedora Discussion, and anyone > currently subscribed via Discourse can follow links to the > corresponding thread on lists.fedoraproject.org, which provides a > lightweight web interface (Hyperkitty) to respond to list threads. > Additionally, we will no longer post misformatted Change proposal > texts on Fedora Discussion, instead providing a link to the canonical > proposal on the Fedora Wiki. If technically feasible, the community > feedback straw polls will remain enabled on Discourse. > > == Dependencies == > > > == Contingency Plan == > * Contingency mechanism: N/A (not a System Wide Change) > * Contingency deadline: N/A (not a System Wide Change) > * Blocks release? N/A (not a System Wide Change) > > == Documentation == > N/A (not a System Wide Change) > > == Release Notes == > > -- > Aoife Moloney > > Fedora Operations Architect > > Fedora Project > > Matrix: @amoloney:fedora.im > > IRC: amoloney > > -- > _______________________________________________ > devel-announce mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new > -- Dmitry Belyavskiy
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