Since we're here again, I like walter's suggestion. --cloud --no-cloud
The attraction of this (to me at least) is that although "cloud" in Solr Cloud is a misnomer, "Solr Cloud" is the well known and popular name that everyone recognizes. Nobody will need to think to figure out what this option means. Until such time as we completely rebrand the product we should focus on usability and user friendliness, for which this is a clear winner (in my opinion at least)... and this command line cleanup is not the place to rebrand the whole product. On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 11:16 AM David Eric Pugh <de...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: > --legacy may be too strong a phrase, so leaning towards --classic as the > parameter? Will update the related PR's and see how they look. > I'd love to get this to done this week if possible. If that's rushing > things, let me know. > > On Saturday, October 5, 2024 at 12:32:53 PM EDT, David Smiley < > dsmi...@apache.org> wrote: > > --disable-solrcloud ? My preference if we don't choose standalone > --legacy-mode I also like your suggestion here. > --classic-mode > > -1 to --single-node as surely anybody who didn't like "standalone" wouldn't > like this either as it's the same meaning, albeit a word we haven't used at > all and is even ambiguous with a single node SolrCloud, which is totally > valid. > -1 to any reference of "distributed" -- no way. "distributed" is way to > general a word, and lately has referred to disabling the Overseer, if you > didn't know. And Solr has supported "distributed search" years before > SolrCloud! Lets not forget that. > > On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 7:11 AM David Eric Pugh <de...@yahoo.com.invalid> > wrote: > > > To get the default change done... Is there another way to tell Solr > > that it's starting in a non solrcloud mode that would be a way to avoid > > wading into "standalone" and "user-managed". To get the default swap > > done, I need a flag I think! Unless someone has a creative idea of how > to > > start Solr that wouldn't be in the SolrCloud mode... > > bin/solr start --not-solr-cloud-mode ??? > > bin/solr start --legagcy-mode > > bin/solr start --no-zookeeper > > bin/solr start --single-node > > bin/solr start --not-distributed-mode <--- I kind of don't mind this > > one. > > > > Or... And I don't really love it, we could add a start script specific > > to our non cloud mode. That goes against our goal of less custom shell > > scripts however and more Java code... > > > > bin/solr start_legacy > > bin/solr start_user_managed > > bin/solr start_single_node > > > > Or even, maybe a new start script for cloud and just document the heck > out > > of it everywhere? > > bin/cluster > > bin/cloud <-- cloud is not a great name these days and we need to get rid > > of it. > > > > I don't know, lots of bikeshedding here. I think I can live with > > bin/solr start --not-distributed-mode. > > > > On Thursday, October 3, 2024 at 11:26:29 PM EDT, David Smiley < > > dsmi...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > Pluggability of ZK is a separate topic and you'll find it contentious > > since > > IMO it's a complete fantasy -- a massive effort for so little payoff. So > > let's not bring that up in this thread. > > > > Anyway, your last paragraph is the key part, and I agree but we're not > > there yet. Changing the default is clearly the next step -- thanks for > > that. Then, maybe reduce documentation on non-SolrCloud. Maybe assume > > SolrCloud and speak of "requires SolrCloud" without having to even name > > what non-SolrCloud is (Standalone vs User-Managed). > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 5:11 AM Eric Pugh <ep...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > I am continuing to think about this.. Thanks David for reminding us on > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-17468 about this thread. > > > > > > To uwe's point, someday we'll need to take what ZooKeeper does and make > > it > > > pluggable. For a single node Solr, it could be just a Hashmap that > > > supports the pluggable interface! And for a distributed system it > could > > > be ZooKeeper. And for larger scale set ups, large parts of it might be > > > backed by something else. Or, we do the testing of what does embedded > ZK > > > take, and decide it's okay. From my perspective, what scares me about > > > resource consumption in future versions of Solr isn't ZK, it's vectors > > and > > > models anyway ;-). > > > > > > I very much agree with the desire to have a single API surface, and > that > > > is my long term goal. Streaming expressions? TRA? How to enable > Basic > > > Auth and manage Security.json? They should all work the same > regardless > > of > > > if you have 1 node or 10 nodes or 1000 nodes from an API and external > > user > > > perspective. With potentially different plumbing internally. > > > > > > If we succeed on that goal, then the whole "standalone" and "user > > managed" > > > and "cloud" goes away.. You just start your Solr's however you want > and > > > cluster them (or not) however you want. It's not this big "mode" thing > > > anymore. > > > > > > > > > On 2024/02/29 13:49:47 Gus Heck wrote: > > > > @uwe > > > > > > > > With some rare exceptions command line startup for a production > > > environment > > > > is starting a single node per machine either way. You start a single > > node > > > > on a single machine and call it a day. Some folks start a single node > > on > > > 5 > > > > servers and point them at the same zookeeper. The only thing that is > > > > changing here is whether or not those people pass in -c or you pass > in > > > > -standalone... (or -s :) ). > > > > > > > > The advantage of having you pass in -standalone (if that color is in > > > > fashion now) is that the tutorials can pass in less args, and be less > > > > complicated, and if SIP-14 gets finished people who want to take > > > advantage > > > > of it still don't have to pass in an arg. > > > > > > > > This change has zero impact on starting a new production anything > other > > > > than tweaking a command line to add an arg. > > > > > > > > FWIW there are a few features not available without zk: Routed > Aliases, > > > > Streaming expressions.... > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 4:36 PM Uwe Schindler <u...@thetaphi.de> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > My problem is more: If you want to start a single Solr server, why > > the > > > > > hell do you want a zookeeper? This is total crap and waste of > > resources > > > > > and a security leak on top (why start some software that you don't > > > need?). > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with the new Solr Cloud default, if there would be by > > > > > default a test cluster started. But if it is only a single node: > > > please, > > > > > please, please default to standalone (yes that's the correct name) > > > mode. > > > > > Maybe make that dependent on what user wants: If you want to start > a > > > > > test cluster start it in zookeper mode, if it's only one node start > > as > > > > > standalone. > > > > > > > > > > Speaking for many users... Thanks, Uwe > > > > > > > > > > P.S.: Instead of separating so hardly between incompatible solr > cloud > > > vs > > > > > solr standalone: Make both behave identical API wise (e.g, remove > the > > > > > differences between terms "collection" and "core"), but only start > > that > > > > > Zookeeper (shit) if you want more than one node by opt-in. > > > > > > > > > > Am 28.02.2024 um 19:19 schrieb Eric Pugh: > > > > > > This change is definitely NOT about requiring them to use Solr > > > Cloud…. > > > > > > > > > > > > We’ve changed the bin/solr script to require a “start” parameter, > > so > > > > > “bin/solr start” to fire up solr, so if you are used to "bin/solr", > > you > > > > > will need to learn the “bin/solr start” command. Though, if you > are > > > using > > > > > install scripts, that probably doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > For those who don’t want Solr Cloud, you just need to add a flag, > > so > > > > > “bin solr start -standalone” for example... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Feb 28, 2024, at 12:55 PM, Uwe Schindler <u...@thetaphi.de> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Please no :-) 100% of my small/medium sized customers would > never > > > ever > > > > > use Solr Cloud. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Uwe > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Am 23.02.2024 um 19:06 schrieb Eric Pugh: > > > > > >>> During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to > > > defaulting > > > > > to SolrCloud mode came up. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it > fires > > > up > > > > > an embedded zookeeper. Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5. > > > If > > > > > you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z > YOUR_ZK_SETUP” > > > would > > > > > connect to the external ensemble instead. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, > then > > > > > bin/solr start —user-managed maybe? Or bin/solr start —standalone > > ??? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we > > > have > > > > > both SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure > SolrCloud > > > > > content is at the top instead of at the bottom. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> To me, this feels like a change that would go on main. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Thoughts? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Eric > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> _______________________ > > > > > >>> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC > > < > https://www.google.com/maps/search/OpenSource+Connections,+LLC+?entry=gmail&source=g > > > > | > > > 434.466.1467 > > > > > | http://www.opensourceconnections.com < > > > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/>< > > > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy < > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal> > > > > > >>> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed < > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is > > considered > > > to > > > > > be Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, > > regardless > > > of > > > > > whether attachments are marked as such. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> Uwe Schindler > > > > > >> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen > > > > > >> https://www.thetaphi.de <https://www.thetaphi.de/> > > > > > >> eMail: u...@thetaphi.de <mailto:u...@thetaphi.de> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > < > https://www.google.com/maps/search/olr.apache.org++%3E+?entry=gmail&source=g > >> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org <mailto: > > > > > dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org> > > > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org > > <mailto: > > > > > dev-h...@solr.apache.org> > > > > > > _______________________ > > > > > > Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | > > > 434.466.1467 | > > > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com < > > > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy < > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal> > > > > > > Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed < > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is > considered > > > to be > > > > > Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless > > of > > > > > whether attachments are marked as such. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Uwe Schindler > > > > > Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen > > > > > https://www.thetaphi.de > > > > > eMail: u...@thetaphi.de > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work) > > > > https://a.co/d/b2sZLD9 (my fantasy fiction book) > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org > > > > > > > > > -- http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work) https://a.co/d/b2sZLD9 (my fantasy fiction book)
