I have contacted some friends in industry, they claim that some controller PCs are still on win7 and have no plan to upgrade in near future, so I would strongly go -1.
In terms of build system on Windows 7, MS does give warnings in VS 2015, but with compatibility mode, we can still install it without issue. So I guess it’s marketing strategy not technical problem on MS side. Zhi > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:02 AM, sebastianb <[email protected]> wrote: > > One more data point: Mathematica still supports Windows 7 (with Platform > Update), and we use MXNet as a backend for our neural net framework. So I > would also vote against deprecating Windows 7 support. > >> On Sep 2, 2018, at 7:40 PM, Marco de Abreu >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks for the data and these quite important points. I agree and hereby >> change my vote to -1. >> >> Barber, Christopher <[email protected]> schrieb am So., 2. Sep. >> 2018, 18:56: >> >>> FWIW, my company is only beginning to transition to Windows 10 now, and my >>> past experience would lead me to believe that many enterprises stick with >>> old versions of Windows long past when you think they would. >>> >>> Seems to me that if you are unwilling to deprecate python 2.7, then >>> continuing to support Windows 7 is a no-brainer. You are more likely to get >>> users to switch to python 3 than you are to get them to install a new >>> operating system. >>> >>> And do you really want to drop support for platforms that your competitors >>> still support? Given MXNet's market share, I wouldn't dream of dropping a >>> platform until after the more popular frameworks have already done so. >>> >>> I also believe that it is possible to install more recent versions of >>> Visual Studio on Windows 7. >>> >>> On 9/2/18, 1:57 AM, "kellen sunderland" <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Google analytics are sadly probably the best numbers we're going to >>> get. >>> Of course these numbers are likely to over-represent windows usage, as >>> I'm >>> sure many people are looking up documentation on a windows machine >>> while >>> ssh'd into a cloud instance or IoT device. >>> >>> What's the trend over time for these numbers Mu? Is Windows 7 usage >>> relatively stable over the last year? >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:58 AM Mu Li <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> According to google analytics, ~12% users who visited mxnet's >>> website are >>>> using Windows 7. It's a significant number. Even though we cannot >>> conclude >>>> that all of these users will run MXNet on Windows 7, I suggest we >>> still >>>> support win7. >>>> >>>> BTW, anyone who can access mxnet's google analytics report can >>> verify this >>>> number by following this instruction: >>>> >>>> >>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1340778/detecting-windows-7-with-google-analytics >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:55 PM Steffen Rochel < >>> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I support a data driven decision. Any suggestions how we can obtain >>>> insight >>>>> about OS usage of the MXNet user community? >>>>> Can we get such information from pip install statistics or should >>> we >>>>> perform a user poll on the discussion forum? >>>>> On the other hand the lack of data should not prevent us from >>> moving >>>>> forward and dropping support for outdated OS. >>>>> In any case we would have to announce dropping a platform support >>> at >>>> least >>>>> a release in advance. >>>>> Steffen >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM Sheng Zha <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Kellen, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I don't have the >>> usage data, >>>>> so >>>>>> I refrained from voting. If any of the voters have such data I'd >>> love >>>> to >>>>>> see it too. >>>>>> >>>>>> -sz >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland < >>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I haven't spoken to anyone about the decision (as I'm >>> currently on an >>>>>>> island in the med) but to me the quick +1s are likely a result >>> of >>>> this >>>>>>> being a fairly straightforward decision. The factors that >>> went into >>>> my >>>>>>> thinking were (1) prioritizing growing platforms rather than >>>> shrinking >>>>>>> platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather than shirt term) and >>> (2) >>>>>> earning >>>>>>> our customers' trust. Claiming support for a platform when we >>> can't >>>>>>> realistically deliver it would lose us trust. I'd prefer to >>> over >>>>> deliver >>>>>>> and under promise when it come to windows 7 for this reason. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now on the flip side one thing I would see as valuable is to >>> try and >>>>> get >>>>>>> windows builds working with clang. This could be beneficial >>> in the >>>>> sense >>>>>>> that it would be easy to maintain for mxnet devs and allow us >>> to use >>>>>> modern >>>>>>> cpp on older windows machines without using vs 2013(which I >>> consider >>>> a >>>>>>> non-starter with our codebase). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You have peaked my curiousity though Sheng. How many win7 >>> users does >>>>>> MXNet >>>>>>> have relative to macos/Linux? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Yuan, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No problem. This is an issue that's worth having a clear >>>> definition, >>>>> so >>>>>>>> there's nothing wrong about your proposal, and thanks for >>> bringing >>>>>> this up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm more concerned about the seemingly unanimous votes on >>> dropping >>>>>> support >>>>>>>> on a platform without seeing the supporting evidence that >>> it's the >>>>>> right >>>>>>>> thing. It is as if everyone who participated in the vote are >>>> already >>>>>> on the >>>>>>>> same page, and somehow I'm the only one that's not. But the >>> only >>>>>> argument I >>>>>>>> hear so far is that it's technically not straightforward to >>>> continue >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> support, which, coming from Amazon folks, certainly doesn't >>> sound >>>>>>>> customer-obsessed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -sz >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM Lin Yuan < >>> [email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Sheng, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this concern. The problem now is that we >>>> cannot >>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> build MXNet on Windows 7 because the build process >>> requires MS VS >>>>>> 2015 w/ >>>>>>>>> update 3 which is incompatible on Windows 7. This leaves >>> many >>>>>> Windows 7 >>>>>>>>> related open issues on github without any timely response. >>> In my >>>>>> opinion, >>>>>>>>> having no response to users' request is probably even >>> worse than >>>>>> letting >>>>>>>>> them know the limitation of OS support. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To minimize the impact to current Windows 7 users, we can >>> provide >>>>>> PyPi >>>>>>>>> package for Windows 7 in this release but defer the bug >>> fix and >>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>> enhancement to later Windows OS version. Based on users' >>>> feedbacks, >>>>>> we >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> then officially discontinue the Windows 7 support in the >>> next >>>> MXNet >>>>>>>>> release. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will appreciate your comments. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37 PM Sheng Zha < >>> [email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are any of the votes based on any measure of user >>> impact, if we >>>>>> indeed >>>>>>>>>> decide not to fix the current problems? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -sz >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko < >>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this Lin! >>>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting to do it as part of MXNet 1.3? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:14 AM Srivastava, Rohit >>> Kumar < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/29/18, 8:39 AM, "sandeep krishnamurthy" < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 Thanks for bringing this up. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de Abreu >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen >>> sunderland < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM Anirudh >>> Acharya < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for discontinuing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM Naveen >>> Swamy < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to stop supporting Win7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54 PM Lin Yuan >>> < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Community, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently, our MXNet installation >>> guide for >>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft Visual >>> Studio 2015 >>>> is >>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> supported on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error-specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, MSFT ended “Mainstream” >>> support >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>>>>>> in 2015 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, it is not possible for >>> developers >>>> to >>>>>> build >>>>>>>>>> MXNet >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> verify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix on Windows 7 platform. Given that >>> there >>>>> have >>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet error on Windows 7 (issue#9271 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271 >>>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>>>> #8921 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921 >>>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>>>>> #11163 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/11163 >>>>>>>>>>> ), >>>>>>>>>>>> it will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more burden on developers in the >>> future if we >>>>>> were to >>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 7. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I therefore would like to propose that >>> we >>>>>> discontinue >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Windows 7 in the next release. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, this means the following >>>> required >>>>>>>>> actions: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) state the discontinuation of >>> Windows 7 >>>>>> support in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> release >>>>>>>>>>>>> note >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) update the MXNet webpage if Windows >>>> version >>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> mentioned. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) update the open Github issues >>> related to >>>>>> Windows 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts about this >>>> proposal >>>>>> and/or >>>>>>>>>>>> suggest if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other missing action item from the >>> above. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep Krishnamurthy >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
