re-publishing to the expected thread: no feedback: does it mean everybody is surprised? agrees/disagrees?
I worked on establishing the status of ASF Maven plugins: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=406620656#Maven4.0.0GAchecklist-Maven4API I all starts by establishing if existing Maven 3 plugins work with Maven 4 or not: I did it for plugins that went to a Maven 4-specific branch I think doing that check on ALL ASF Maven plugins would make sense, to establish how our "Maven 3 plugins compatibility plan" works or not and when a plugin fails initially, establishing why, and if a fix can be done without creating the Maven 4 branch, would be useful Help welcome Hervé On 2026/03/22 03:22:14 Hervé Boutemy wrote: > extracting that topic, for clarity > > my personal opinion on "It should be clear and documented why the new API is > there, what it looks like / how it is used and how to upgrade to it." > > what has to be clear is that: > 1. Most Maven 3.x plugins should work out of the box > 2. Plugins using Maven 2.x APIs will break > 3. Extensions are likely to need updates > 4. Maven 4 API Architecture: Currently flagged as experimental > > I just extracted from slides 14 and 15 of the great slick slides: > https://gnodet.github.io/maven4-presentation/ > > > I'll add my own words: > 5. do not upgrade your Maven 3 plugins to Maven 4 API unless you get a real > benefit of that effort, as you'll have to maintain 2 branches in parallel > 6. but test and prepare: this experimental phase is useful to check how the > API is complete enough > > We can also explain what we did at Apache Maven: > - created a few Maven 4-specific plugins to benefit from new features (for > example Maven Compiler Plugin multi-Java module) > - created a test "mvn4" branch for our 50 plugins for checking: not really > maintained, no backport of main branch updates, but a test > > I'd love us to clearly document why we did a few Maven 4 plugins before Maven > 4.0.0 GA: I had to dive into Java Module support to understand the Maven > Compiler Plugin case > I'd love to get help to create a clear list of which plugins we did and why. > BTW this will be useful for users: "Maven 4 plugin because Maven 3 plugin > does > not work in Maven 4" is different from "Maven 4 plugin to benefit form some > Maven 4 specific features"). > > and yes, this will also let us time to write some examples, return of > experience, more doc > > we need to remain simple and reasonable: Maven 3 plugins remain first class > citizens in Maven 4 > It's only when Maven 4 will rise that really publishing Maven 4 (specific) > plugins will make sense: it will take years > > This is the only viable way of going forward: > - we are not a company with resources to migrate and double maintain our own > 50 plugins > - we will not drop our Maven 3 plugins for a good number of years > - there are 7.500 community plugins in Maven Central [1]: Maven 3 > compatibility in Maven 4 is the default path for a long time > - the friction of people discovering that their plugins that work in Maven 3 > are in fact Maven 2 plugins that were working in Maven 3 "compat mode" will > be > a first complexity > > notice: I don't remember fully what Tamasz had in mind for Maven 3.10 scope, > but a clear WARNING "Maven 2 plugin detected: will break soon" would be useful > (perhaps it exists, but we don't promote it sufficiently yet) > > > We need to answer 2 questions for getting Maven 4.0.0 GA with this API topic > covered: > 1. Is it clear? > 2. Do we agree? Or is there another proposal? > > Regards, > > Hervé > > > [1] https://central.sonatype.com/search?q=p%3Amaven-plugin > > Le dimanche 22 février 2026, 12:09:38 CET Matthias Bünger a écrit : > > Hi all, > > I personally only care about the state of Maven API for plugin > > maintainers (including the Maven team). It should be clear and > > documented why the new API is ther, what it looks like / how it is used > > and how to upgrade to it. As mentioned several times and also added by > > Gerd to the "open To Dos for 4.0.0 list" not even our plugins are in > > line with the API and there a breaking changes between literally every > > beta/rc version. I offered several times to write documentation about > > this if someone tells me what I have to write, because I have no clue > > about the plugin API (neither for Maven 3 or 4). > > > > I don't care about namespace changes in the build.pom. The consumer POM > > is unchanged so it is the same since Maven 2 and the ecosystem can work > > with it. > > > > I see the possibilty that we have to do bigger changes before we are > > fine for a Maven 4. And maybe we need to be brave / honest enough to go > > back from RC phase to beta if this is required - even if it might raise > > the "danger" of lurkers coming out of the dark to restart discussion to > > add other things, like Java 21 or merge current 4.1. into 4.0 together > > to have mixings from the 4.0.0 start. > > > > Other topic: I know that there is nothing like "benevolent dictator" in > > ASF project, but I have the feeling that we need something like this to > > somehow end discussions and be it only to decide to start a binding vote. > > > > Matthias > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
