Hi Tamás,

Is 3 days that bothering - didnt spot it to be honest?
Indeed, strictly speaking you can do "until we get 3 bindings +1" - don't
think you can say for a maximum otherwise it means you need to cancel if
you don't get it ;) - but it also means you mean the project does not care
about its core people - if you start the release on friday night you
potentially let 0s to some PMC and users to review the release.
Indeed it is ont an apache requirement but I think it is a good thing to
enable people to review a release and have the opportunity to give feedback
so 3 days sounds like a very good default if you take into account the
world side - timezones - of our project.

Side note: guess exceptions can be done for CVE, milestones, beta, alpha,
... - anything not final or urgent but very located.

Hope it makes sense.

Romain Manni-Bucau
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Le ven. 18 nov. 2022 à 18:55, Tamás Cservenák <[email protected]> a
écrit :

> Howdy,
>
> My pet peeve these days is our release process. IMHO, we should be able to
> release ("move") much faster than today.
>
> My proposal would be:
> * vote is "done done" the moment quorum is reached
> * change the wording in the vote email from "Vote open for at least 72
> hours." to "Vote open for a maximum of 72 hours.".
>
> Reasoning:
> * vote cannot be vetoed by definition (only release mgr can cancel it).
> * change would not conflict with ASF defined rules, the 72h is not
> compulsory (document states "should" not "must").
> * the release process is already wearisome, complex, and is easy to miss
> (over-represented) manual steps. For example yesterday for some reason it
> took almost 2 hours to sync release artifacts to Maven Central, during
> which you are in a "busy loop" (the announcement and site depends on sync).
> Leaving it "for tomorrow" may cause users to learn about a new release thru
> Artifact Listener or whatever other service, causing confusion. Ideally,
> site and announcement mail should be tied to sync, and that does lead to
> "busy loop".
> * current process causes (forced) context switching, and can likely lead to
> human mistakes: when the release vote is announced, developer is FORCED to
> stop for 72h and possibly switch. This is just a productivity killer.
> * which part do you like: as a developer sitting on needles while being
> blocked on upstream (dependency) bugfix or as a user waiting for bugfix?
> * we already agreed on one minor process improvement: we have quite long
> "chains" of dependencies, so a bugfix that can span on long trails could
> take weeks to be done serially, even if the bugfix itself is trivial. Hence
> we did accept that we can do "batch votes" (release together) and can do
> one vote for this case.
> * on positive site this could lead to mindset change of bugfix releases, as
> today, few wants to go thru painful release process for "single simple
> change" (see ASF Slack #maven for "ahh Apache process..."), that IMHO is
> wrong: we all should release early and often. And be happy with it, not
> feel it like chores :)
>
> Finally some "canned responses":
> * "time is needed for all interested parties to review": If someone cannot
> get to it in 5 minutes, or in 5 hours or in 5 days, it really but really
> does not matter, as release is to happen anyway (unless release mgr cancels
> it). One not getting to it, will be notified via mails anyway (vote,
> result, announce). We can already observe that there are "areas of
> interests", but also there is the customary habit of "review invitation"
> which is a good thing IMHO, as usually one invites a colleague with whom
> the topic was or is under discussion already, so both of them are
> "contextualized". Those initiated developers will most probably join in
> voting for release as well, as either they depend on the fix or they know
> what the problem was.
> * "this will lead to more bugs" or "we are too hasty making changes": no,
> it will not and we are not. As in essence, this change would allow us, in
> case of need, to release even multiple times per day (so release the
> project carrying a bug in the morning, then have a patch release for it in
> the afternoon). Really, as bugs are inevitable, they happen with or without
> 72 hours, still the current process just causes problems IMHO. As the new
> release is sitting on Central, without immediate remediation possibility.
> Or to put it another way, having this option open does not mean we will
> make all releases like it, and we will not start competing by releasing all
> the plugins several times a day :) You can see there are "hot spots'' (if
> you look at maveniverse as whole, sometimes plugins, sometimes shared
> stuff, sometime maven, etc), especially with closing releases of Maven, but
> those hotspots come and go, move, and just like today, some components will
> not be released for quite some time, as the hotspots move from here to
> there.
>
> Applying this process change, if accepted, would not alter anything
> regarding "commit policy" of code changes (PRs, JIRA attached patches,
> etc).
>
> Refs:
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> https://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html
>
> Please comment, add your opinion. Ideally, if discussion closes with
> "positive outcome", I would like to propose a vote for these changes.
>
> Thanks
> T
>

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