I filed our report a day late. Sorry for the delay. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/July2018#preview
I made note that we are in discussion to leave the incubator. This leaves 9 podlings that did not report for yall to track down :) On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Josh Elser <[email protected]> wrote: > I won't rehash the comments on the more frequent reporting and > shepherding. I think they were appropriately answered already on > general@incubator (sorry if the CC to this list was dropped). > > I want to address the notion that mentors or other ASF members are here to > build communities. We're not. > > We're here to provide guardrails to try to build healthy communities. > We're here to help with technical challenges in getting your software > lifecycle up on ASF infrastructure. We're here to help with the legal > challenges of software licensing and copyright. We're here to be human > mentors for when there are questions about interpersonal issues or > attracting new people. > > We're not here to build the community for you. > > At the end of the day, I haven't seen an email to this list that wasn't a > podling report request in months. I actually stopped hounding Ed personally > because it had become a regular thing. There is absolutely no shame in > saying that Gossip is not ready for the ASF. I'd really encourage you all > to take a step back and think about that. I honestly think moving to Github > would make you all much happier, and, an eventual move to the Incubator > again later, would be that much easier (knowing what goes into it). > > On 7/5/18 1:00 PM, Edward Capriolo wrote: > >> The challenge with this process is Apache claims to be about "building >> communities", but you do not have great tools to do that. A number of >> apache projects are propped up by some for profit company who just pays >> people to work on that thing all the time. >> >> I asked for 3 months (normal reporting cycle) to re-evaluate and have a >> legit chance at re-bootstrapping. I go to write up the report (which are >> now suddenly due every month that no one discussed with me). The report >> due >> July 4th a US holiday. I go to write the report find a convo in the >> incubator about how people want to close up the podling because they can >> not even wait to see if I actually get the report in or not. >> >> Meanwhile the project had this "shepard" who never signed off a report and >> his first interaction with the ML was to vote on shutting down the >> podling. >> Great job "building communities". >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Josh Elser <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hey Ed, >>> >>> I think taking Gossip back to Github is the right decision. The Incubator >>> is designed to support, long-running, low-activity projects like you >>> outline. The regular reports on progress become a time-sink because there >>> isn't the expected level of volume or participants. >>> >>> The incubator works well when there is an established community of folks >>> who are active. Like you say, this otherwise becomes a burden on you (the >>> sole contributor, best as I can see), taking your time away from actually >>> producing software. >>> >>> +1 from me >>> >>> On 7/5/18 9:18 AM, Edward Capriolo wrote: >>> >>> All, >>>> >>>> It was a sizable effort moving everything Gossip into the incubator. >>>> Thank >>>> you all for your help along the way. Recently activity has slowed down, >>>> much of this falls on me. >>>> >>>> My opinion is gossip would be much better off moving back to github and >>>> be >>>> independently hosted (by me or someone else) I believe for the following >>>> reasons: >>>> >>>> Infrastructure: >>>> >>>> AAA >>>> I forgot my password and when I clicked the "FORGOT MY PASSWORD" link I >>>> got >>>> back a PGP email. No instructions in the email, lol city. I had to >>>> google >>>> around ASFs site to try to figure out what to do. Try googling 'pgp lost >>>> password' on apache's docs and figuring out what you need to do. >>>> >>>> Releases: >>>> The release process for most Java projects using maven 'mvn >>>> release:clean >>>> && mvn release:prepare && mvn release:perform". Hosting is free and sign >>>> up >>>> takes less then a day. Apache incubator wants to see releases as a sign >>>> of >>>> health, yet the release process is involved. We have to do the maven >>>> steps, >>>> generate an email with the checksums of all critical files, post a vote >>>> on >>>> the incubator list, release the artifacts to central, and copy them to >>>> an >>>> svn directory. >>>> >>>> That is a vote across 2 mailing lists. and all the maven steps, and >>>> other >>>> manual steps, and that does not even count getting the website changed. >>>> For >>>> me what is a 5 minute thing turns into a days long process. The net >>>> result >>>> is we have features in trunk not in the release because doing a release >>>> is >>>> just a drag. No one is even half interested in taking on this process >>>> and >>>> I >>>> only did it because it is the only way. >>>> >>>> Community: >>>> Apache incubator is about building communities. >>>> Mailing list >>>> The mailing list is fairly opaque to me. I am sure there is some way to >>>> figure out what the subscriber base is but I don't know it. >>>> >>>> Jira >>>> Jira is great tool but the implementation slows people down. New users >>>> have >>>> to sign up, and they are unable to assign themselves tickets until I >>>> navigate into JIRA and add them to a group. With open source and >>>> attracting >>>> contributors it helps to be able to strike while the iron is hot. Having >>>> users confused as to weather they can start on a task does not help with >>>> that. >>>> >>>> GIT >>>> Apache has git but not github is only a mirror. When I have to merge >>>> peoples stuff I have to do it by hand with git commands. (No squash and >>>> merge button) >>>> >>>> Updating the site: >>>> Another series of obscure svn commands, making simple things hard, (much >>>> like the release process) >>>> >>>> Reports >>>> I get an 4-5 emails at different rates titled "Incubator Report Due" at >>>> different rates. Only one of them is for this project. We were never >>>> great >>>> with reports. Almost all the info in the report could be automatically >>>> generated. We missed a report, we got placed onto a report now do every >>>> month category. >>>> >>>> The last one was due yesterday, sorry I was enjoying a hotdog at a bbq, >>>> I >>>> went to fill it out today and, saw yet another email chain on the >>>> incubator >>>> list about how Gossip should leave apache. The report is just another >>>> huge >>>> time suck, the time I spend doing it I could be doing an hour of code >>>> review. >>>> >>>> Even though some things are in the incubator 7 years, and some apache >>>> TLPs >>>> have no activity Gossip out of the incubator seems to be a constant >>>> thing >>>> for some.... >>>> >>>> So lets get out of here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>
