I'd like to second the concern that svn in particular is not a good tool for 
any but coding professionals.

For more insight into barriers faced by non-coders to use of svn, just ask 
Sally.

I'm not sure what the solution is but the foundation is moving toward use of 
Google G Suite for many things that svn is ill suited for.

I'm not personally invested in G Suite because of the permissions difficulties 
but these might be mitigated by our infra team if we decide that wider use of 
such tools would be of benefit.

Regards,

Craig

> On Jul 13, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Kevin A. McGrail <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Using revision control systems like svn and git are tools with a high
> barrier to use and a proven track record of problems with non-coders.  They
> are programming tools being misused to run a corporation or committee.
> 
> When front-ended by great tools like whimsy, they can be very useful.
> However, without that they have proven difficult for the foundation
> including fundraising, press, accounting and planners.
> 
> They are about as UN-inclusive as it gets for a choice of tooling.  It is
> folly to promote their continued use.  Doing so will continue this culture,
> unconsciously promote or not, of "the ASF only want programmers."
> 
> Wikis also fall.into a middle ground.  For me, they do not support low
> vision users either.  They don't support file storage and the version
> control in messaging that I have seen is onerous to find minor changes.
> 
> I recommend we formally consider a recommendation around better, more
> inclusive tools.  Tools like Google G Suite or Microsoft o365, *both of
> which are donated to us*, are far more widely used and better suited for
> non-programmers and coders alike.
> 
> I suggest that both are considered and an outreachy intern perhaps mentored
> to fnalize our ldap integration for gsuite and o365.
> 
> Then we can very easily create documents and store items in a way
> non-programmers can use.
> 
> So am -1 to use a private svn and recommend this alternative expansion of
> non programming tools is investigated (even though I cannot vote).
> 
> I am happy to be a co-mentor in a limited capacity to the intern of such a
> project for ldap integration.
> 
> Regards, KAM
> 
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 00:42 Daniel Gruno <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/13/19 6:34 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
>>> HI,
>>> 
>>> JFYI - Wiki permissions can also be set up to allow PMC view/edit and
>> ASF members view access which would be similar permisisons as a projects
>> mailing list. There permissions can be set on a folder and all documents
>> under that will inherent these permissions.
>> 
>> +1, I think a restricted cwiki area for preparing reports is a better
>> option. It would also mean you could prepare something within the PMC,
>> then "publish" it in place by changing the restrictions once the report
>> is ready.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Justin
>>> 
>> 
>> 

Craig L Russell
[email protected]

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